English as a universal language

[Lairiodd]

At the time, one thing that the British Empire did well was to run countries and manage their economies. It wasn't just the British that benefited either, most of the local populations had better conditions then they they currently do today. Considering the size, geographic diversity & cultural diversity I would say I am actually quite proud of what the empire achieved, certainly not ashamed!

Speaking as an Irish person, I think there is some truth in what you were saying. However, I think the real problem was that there was no mechanism for a country to get more autonomy by legal means. The Act of Union basically diluted Irish voting power to non-existance. This meant that rebellion was the only route.

I think a system by which a country could move up a "ladder" to (near) full independence would have been a better system.

The conditions would include things like social stability, property protection, minority protection (and also representation), a common law legal system, and also that the people of the country actually wanted (by referendum) to move to the next level. Each level would give more authority to the local parliament.

At the lowest level would be a country which was governed by a governor directly appointed by London and at the highest level would be a country which has a parliament that could in most cases (say except foreign affairs and war) override London. In fact, even independance could be offered for really stable countries (as they would likely be allies anyway).

I think if there was a system like that in place, then it would have taken alot of the steam out of rebellions and maybe Ireland might even be a commonwealth country now (or maybe not ). The trick would be to balance giving the locals more power with ensuring that there isn't tyranny of the majority and/or a collapse to dictatorship.

As for the being robbed part, I certainly don't feel that way. I think our time had been served. We did our best for the countries, and tried to leave them in good shape. Some have prospered]

I think countries need to take responsibility for themselves. It is so easy to blame the British empire for what has gone wrong in countries. However, most of the problem is actions taken by local leaders, i.e. the ones who over-threw the British or who over-threw the ones who over-threw the British.

[Ovi]

I certainly agree that the way independance was attained left something to be desired. I do think a lot of the problem was the fact that it took the rebellions for people to realise that the countries should be returned to their own control. The later countries to gain independence did so in much more "civilised" ways.

Again, we have the benefit of hindsight and can fairly clearly see the "right" options now, would we have had the foresight to see them in at the time in question?

[Gandelf]

I think it's far to say that most people prefer to be left alone and to be left to their own systems of government etc. and this applies even down to the smallest scale. For example, where a government wants to merge two neighbouring councils into one... there will be many who don't wish that to happen... they would rather have things stay the same.

Instead of conquering, subduing and imposing standards and introducing ways that are not "indigenous", maybe it's better to leave things the way people have always known them to be?

[Lairiodd]

I think it's far to say that most people prefer to be left alone and to be left to their own systems of government etc. and this applies even down to the smallest scale. For example, where a government wants to merge two neighbouring councils into one... there will be many who don't wish that to happen... they would rather have things stay the same.

Instead of conquering, subduing and imposing standards and introducing ways that are not "indigenous", maybe it's better to leave things the way people have always known them to be?

Ok, but if there's a famine that is caused by those same systems, what should be done or if they wage war on their neighbours ?

What if trade will change those countries but also will improve the lives of alot of people in them.

Even things like birth control have social effects as they give more power to women. What about educating women, there are alot of places where it is not done (or actually illegal), would it be interfering for say a charity to build a school for girls? There is always going to be some interaction.

More to the point, should respect be shown to countries which won't/don't show that same respect to others?

Also, what is a nation, is it the people of the nation or just the rulers of the nation ? Who gets to decide ? Is it OK to support a revolution to put a democracy in place if it has the support of most of the people ?

[Lieva]

what should be done or if they wage war on their neighbours ?

to go from recent news..
big start would be not to supply them with guns..

[ambera]

So I think Europe should abolish the teaching of any language other than English. They ought to allow 10 years for every European to learn English as a native tongue, then make it illegal to speak any other language, like Spanish, French, German, Italian, Greek etc. etc.

Instead of conquering, subduing and imposing standards and introducing ways that are not "indigenous", maybe it's better to leave things the way people have always known them to be?

I've tried for several seconds, and I can't reconcile these two statements.

Edit, OK, to be nitpicky the second is a question (presumably rhetorical) rather than a statement but you know what I mean.

[Gandelf]

I've tried for several seconds, and I can't reconcile these two statements.

Edit, OK, to be nitpicky the second is a question (presumably rhetorical) rather than a statement but you know what I mean.

Maybe it's because part of me sees the logic of adopting one system, yet another part values individuality? After all variety is the spice of life, they say.

Part of me is saddened by the fact that the French no longer spend Francs, or the German Deutchsmarks, the Spanish Pesetas etc. etc. Part of the fun of travelling to Europe was using different currencies. But now the Euro has made it incredibly dull... but I can see the sense of it.

Part of me longs to return Britain back to Pounds, Shillings and Pence and for Metrication to be given the "boot", but at the same time, the European Union is probably the greatest safeguard against European nations going to war with each other.

Basically, I'm sitting on the fence. Although at the moment, I'm leaning more towards Imperialism and individuality.

[Lieva]

Part of me longs to return Britain back to Pounds, Shillings and Pence and for Metrication to be given the "boot", but at the same time, the European Union is probably the greatest safeguard against European nations going to war with each other.

keep the pounds and shilling but bring back the half pence!

everything went down hill when they took away the half pence

[Sharkith]

Again, we have the benefit of hindsight and can fairly clearly see the "right" options now, would we have had the foresight to see them in at the time in question?

Anything can be said with hindsight, hindsight is simply observing the past and of course values were very different back then. What is shocking is that even though we generally agree now that 'educating' the savages was kind of a bad idea we still insist on similar things today. Even with hindsight. For example, arguing that countries like Myanmar with 136 different ethnic groups should be democratic. Or get upset when a democracy elects an extremist and so on.

With hindsight not much has changed.

[Ovi]

Anything can be said with hindsight, hindsight is simply observing the past and of course values were very different back then. What is shocking is that even though we generally agree now that 'educating' the savages was kind of a bad idea we still insist on similar things today. Even with hindsight. For example, arguing that countries like Myanmar with 136 different ethnic groups should be democratic. Or get upset when a democracy elects an extremist and so on.

With hindsight not much has changed.

The discussion related to what the British Empire did, and whether it was shameful. As you say values were very different, and whether the Empires actions were shameful needs to be judged against those values and not against the values of today. They should be judged, as much as is possible, without the benefit of hindsight.

As to your specific point, I don't think that is a particualrly good example. Whilst educating the savages cause local issues and disturbancies, surely the ultimate goal is to educate everyone?

One thing the world needs to get over is all the talk about ethnic groups, there is only one ethnicity that matters, that of being part of the Human Race. The sooner we can educate everyone (savages included) to understand that the better.