"Resistance Piercing" buffs for classic primary casters...

[Jupiler]

Armsman, Berserker, Blademaster, Hero, Mercenary, Savage, Warrior are the classes that get stoicism, a free 25% CC reduction skill at lvl 35

then these classes can choose determination: Armsman, Berserker, Blademaster, Champion, Hero, Hunter, Mercenary, Paladin, Ranger, Reaver, Savage, Scout, Thane, Valewalker, Valkyrie, Warden, Warrior

det5 will be 55% CC reduction, combined with stoicism and resists tanks have close to cc immunity

[Xest]

Surely mezz will still have some impact? Only tanks will get determination, or am I wrong? That still leaves healers and other nukers as targets for mezz.

It's a shame they have to mess with it, since it really does seem to be swings and roundabouts at the moment. Mezz is a little on the out of control side, but things otherwise seem kinda balanced.

Thing is, with SoS being up most fights (if a hib group has two bards it's probably up nearly every fight) it means that initial mezz just bounces of the entire group. By the time SoS has worn off the tank train will have ripped a chunk out a group and every caster will be dead (BoF/Warguard/Bodyguard can help prolong but that's it really) - what this essentially means is in Alb for example there's no point having a sorc in group, his CC is useless to start with and by the time SoS etc. has worn off he's likely already very dead. That's why the following Alb group is not only viable, but a pretty good setup:

Merc
Merc
Merc
Merc
Paladin
Minstrel
Cleric
Cleric

Not saying some tanks didn't need boosts but imo the SoS + Det. changes are totally OTT. SoS now completely negates CC in pretty much every fight, charge3 + det. makes light tanks un-CCable permanently and it's basically just dumbed RvR down, it's now just about who has the most light tanks, warguards, bofs, soldiers barricades in their groups.

As much as caster DPS was a little lame, it was nice to at least have a choice of viable caster groups and viable tank groups, now caster groups just aren't viable again, well other than zerg/noob/tower/keep farming of course - they still rule those roosts I guess.

I'm in 2 minds about the SoS change, as I play my minstrel a fair bit I do agree totally that SoS needed some kinda boost, speedwarps every second negating the RA entirely was pretty retarded but I also feel that SoS completely negating all CC in 90% of fights you come across is even more unfair, especially as CC is pretty class defining for some chars - bards/sorcs. If a sorc can't mezz/root you may as well take a cabby for debuff + nearsight + snare + disease instead. Maybe Mythic want to make groups without CC viable I'm not sure, but seeing as every group for the past 4 years has kinda needed a CCer it just feels weird being able to run perfectly well without one in 8vs8 (still need CC vs. the zergs ofc ).

[Lothandar]

The Empty Mind
Soldier's Barricade
Dashing Defense
Stoicism
Determination
Ignore Pain
Testudo
Ferocious Will

because every tank gets testudo

[Kias]

Tanks get it REALLY good as of 1.78 back to the point where pure melee groups are the only real way to go.

with bg/grapple ingame that will never happen imo.

[Kias]

[quote="Xest"]Thing is, with SoS being up most fights (if a hib group has two bards it's probably up nearly every fight) it means that initial mezz just bounces of the entire group. By the time SoS has worn off the tank train will have ripped a chunk out a group and every caster will be dead (BoF/Warguard/Bodyguard can help prolong but that's it really) - what this essentially means is in Alb for example there's no point having a sorc in group, his CC is useless to start with and by the time SoS etc. has worn off he's likely already very dead. That's why the following Alb group is not only viable, but a pretty good setup:

Merc
Merc
Merc
Merc
Paladin
Minstrel
Cleric
Cleric

Not saying some tanks didn't need boosts but imo the SoS + Det. changes are totally OTT. SoS now completely negates CC in pretty much every fight, charge3 + det. makes light tanks un-CCable permanently and it's basically just dumbed RvR down, it's now just about who has the most light tanks, warguards, bofs, soldiers barricades in their groups.

As much as caster DPS was a little lame, it was nice to at least have a choice of viable caster groups and viable tank groups, now caster groups just aren't viable again, well other than zerg/noob/tower/keep farming of course - they still rule those roosts I guess.

I'm in 2 minds about the SoS change, as I play my minstrel a fair bit I do agree totally that SoS needed some kinda boost, speedwarps every second negating the RA entirely was pretty retarded but I also feel that SoS completely negating all CC in 90% of fights you come across is even more unfair, especially as CC is pretty class defining for some chars - bards/sorcs. If a sorc can't mezz/root you may as well take a cabby for debuff + nearsight + snare + disease instead. Maybe Mythic want to make groups without CC viable I'm not sure, but seeing as every group for the past 4 years has kinda needed a CCer it just feels weird being able to run perfectly well without one in 8vs8 (still need CC vs. the zergs ofc ]

on excal atleast a few groups containing 2-3 casters are beginning to use 'extending' & 'looping'. This means the opposition has to be constantly moving forward otherwise the tanks will eventually go out of heal range and its obvious what happens from that point. You also seem to forget that support can be cc'd for full duration. Another point is that a 7s root and 8s mez is still enough to take a light tank out of the fight for a long enough period for it to affect the fight.

1.78 will give tanks an advantage for sure but without charge they can still be kited by anything with end regen, if anything it will show which casters play well and which are useless imo (pre-kiting etc)

true cc immune tank is also 79realm skill points to get charge3 (more op than det5 will ever be tbh), det5 and purge2 (for melee stuns) and according to your 1.78 is the caster doom predictions every tank will have such ras right?

not to mention its pretty fotm in hib/alb to run 2 grapplemaster grps...

[Lairiodd]

Thing is, with SoS being up most fights (if a hib group has two bards it's probably up nearly every fight) it means that initial mezz just bounces of the entire group.

Doesn't SOS only make you able to move when mezzed ? You still cannot attack or use magic ?

[Lothandar]

Doesn't SOS only make you able to move when mezzed ? You still cannot attack or use magic ?

You outright resist crowd control spells

[Lothandar]

with bg/grapple ingame that will never happen imo.

Say that to the vendo+bs zerks

[Lothandar]

1.78 will give tanks an advantage for sure but without charge they can still be kited by anything with end regen, if anything it will show which casters play well and which are useless imo (pre-kiting etc)

Since tanks don't have end regen

[Alexandrinus]

the det change brings normal tanks,hybrids (wich cant get charge) back into RVR business, dont think many BM's spent nearly all theire RA points into getting nearly CC immune (you also need to be able to kill a enemy fast and survive out there).