pry.net=dead?

[Lieva]

Hmm
Thing is how % sure are you that if troops were removed that the situation would get better?
From what i gather - they are still trying to get the government stabalised there.
As for the bombings, the bombers are targeting their own people as well as the allied forces so quite clearly they dont actually give a damn about anyone there.
I would personally like to hear from the people on the street.
It' all well and good the people safe in this countryor other 'safe' places saying the troops should be removed but I wonder what people living there feel like?
Also I honestly think that 50% of the reason people want the troops to be removed is because of the fact that our own countries are being targeted also and they're scared. Human maybe but is it humaine?

Also I wonder how many bombings they stop compared to the bombs that actually go off...

[Sharkith]

the parties only agreed to get back around the table once it was agreed that the troops would be moved out. So it was down to the comittment to removal of the troops that provided the atmosphere for real talks to begin.

wrong. It was the IRA admitting amongst themselves (something that almost split the movement) that they would gain more through politics and the British Government admitting that it should get off its high horse and actually talk to people whom it had always believed were terrorists. There was never any commitment to pull out of Northern Ireland at the outset although demilitarisation eventually emerged, quite rightly, as part of the agreement.

[Takitothemacs]

Hmm
Thing is how % sure are you that if troops were removed that the situation would get better?
From what i gather - they are still trying to get the government stabalised there.
As for the bombings, the bombers are targeting their own people as well as the allied forces so quite clearly they dont actually give a damn about anyone there.
I would personally like to hear from the people on the street.
It' all well and good the people safe in this countryor other 'safe' places saying the troops should be removed but I wonder what people living there feel like?
Also I honestly think that 50% of the reason people want the troops to be removed is because of the fact that our own countries are being targeted also and they're scared. Human maybe but is it humaine?

Also I wonder how many bombings they stop compared to the bombs that actually go off...

I can't comment on the situation in Iraq but grew up with the situation in northern Ireland with family and friends of the family have been involved in various situations so I have see the effects first hand and can only say that things did get a lot better once the troops left... as I said... there are still issues but they are a lot more manageable than they were. I can bear witness to being in my uncles sitting room looking to the street outside watching riot police batting with people with petrol bombs, and various other weapons... going out the next day to see what devastation was brought to a street was something you dont quickly forget.

[Takitothemacs]

the movement did split and remains to this day split into various factions, those opposed to the talks are those that continue acts of violence. while I dont disagree that there were some talks... the real talks did not truly start until the troops started to move out... after all someone had to make the first move and you can be damn sure that the IRA were not the first to make a concession... all credit to the brit govmt for making that first move... but rest assured that there was a preliminary comittment from them to move troops out before the IRA would agree to full talks.

[Arcsalin]

I just love it when I say something and it completely changes the intended direction of the thread into something else xD

[Labbe]

People care too much.

I am better then you.
My belifs are so good/right that I must convince others.
I don't know you, you scare me.
I don't like changes.
I, I and I.
I > Common sense
I wish

[OohhoO]

Going back to propaganda...

Propaganda isn't just about truth & lies ofc, but also about choosing which information is presented, & in which form it's presented. Subtle manipulations in the information presented can lead to very different public opinions being formed.

I remember when I first moved to Switzerland 20 years ago there was a TV proggie which compared the international news from various (primarily) european countries. At the time I was astonished & disturbed to note that quite a lot of the international news broadcast &/or publicised in the UK was often quite different to that from the rest of western Europe, where the international news was normally relatively similar.

In the days before the internet became so prevalent & with not so many Brits speaking foreign languages as nowadays & the UK being physically isolated from the rest of western Europe by the English Channel I guess it was easier for the powers that be to subtly nudge the flow of information to the general public into desired channels and subvert that which wasn't desired.

Nowadays we have so much 'information' at our disposal that such manipulation is more difficult & probably much less effective, at least in countries with a prevalence of broadband internet, making it easier to form an 'informed' opinion.

Or at least... That is my naively informed opinion

[Lieva]

I can't comment on the situation in Iraq but grew up with the situation in northern Ireland with family and friends of the family have been involved in various situations so I have see the effects first hand and can only say that things did get a lot better once the troops left... as I said... there are still issues but they are a lot more manageable than they were. I can bear witness to being in my uncles sitting room looking to the street outside watching riot police batting with people with petrol bombs, and various other weapons... going out the next day to see what devastation was brought to a street was something you dont quickly forget.

sounds nasty to grow up in a place like that
guess i just cant understand why people would attack their own people - innocent bystanders - to make a point really

oh and that you was a general you not specificially directed at you takit just to be sure

[Gandelf]

Nowadays we have so much 'information' at our disposal that such manipulation is more difficult & probably much less effective, at least in countries with a prevalence of broadband internet, making it easier to form an 'informed' opinion.

Or at least... That is my naively informed opinion

I'm not entirely sure that that is the case. The Internet is the biggest rumour-mill in the world. Anyone can create a web page about anything. It hardly costs anything to do. There are no checks on such material, making it more likely that people can upload a whole load of lies without blinking an eyelid. If the amount of untruthful information exceeds that which is true, then there is a danger that the untruthful stuff might be believed as being THE truth, because there is more of it.

I'm not convinced either way, but I tend to err on the side of pessimism with things like this.

[Takitothemacs]

think about it in real terms Gand...

the reality is probably more of a standard deviation... with very little being 100% true and very little being 100% false... rather there are varying levels of truth and falicy, which we have to glean as best we can and try for ourselves to seperate the wheat from the chaff... therein lies the difficulty as the amount of information available goes up so we must process ever more information making it more difficult to discern the real truth from the lies.