Jesus Camp Trailer

A forum for anyhing not game related.
User avatar
Cromcruaich
Posts: 1255
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: North West, UK

Post by Cromcruaich »

Sharkith wrote: thank you and yes I agree. If you read Darwin there is the problem of intelligent selection and there is the more profound problem of the organism as the basic unit of analysis. Likewise all of these ideas have been superseded and refined. All very important and nothing to do with God whatsoever...
Indeed. The reason darwin introduced intelligent selection was because at the time there was no way he could account for all the species and the fossil record, against the best estimates (at the time) of the age of the earth.


The sun thing was a poetic illustration by the way.

As for a blind belief in creationism - I have been there and it wasn't as complicated as the belief in Darwin. Like I said I can't see the point in all the energy and time wasted in objecting to it. ]
Still disagree with the language, 'belief in Darwin', I think he did exist. In all seriousness, i'd hope we would of got away from this in the previous threads. Its an over simplification, and really doesnt represent theories on the speciation of the planet.


Still after all the reading we agree on most points, it just seems that it could of been a place we got to in 4 sentences rather than 400.

The funny thing is - i didnt even watch the trailer. :)
Crom, Druid of Na Fianna Dragun

If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...the A(nimist)-Team

Cue music for full effect.

Thanks to Tuthmes for the link.

User avatar
Gandelf
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:00 am
Location: Inside Your Mind!

Post by Gandelf »

Luz wrote:Gandelf, sorry if I insulted you.

Apology accepted and if there's anything I've said that may have offended you, I apologise also. :)

User avatar
Gandelf
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:00 am
Location: Inside Your Mind!

Post by Gandelf »

<ankh> wrote:Fair enough, you don't have to answer anything tbh. But as you don't wanna reply to this question (and tbh, You could have told me earlier than you didnt wanna reply) I think i know where you stand. Unfortunatly this make me belive your wrong - else you wouldnt have anything to lose if you had replied. Sure people might get upset, but nobody force you to read their reply (ignore is your best friend).

Anyway, late for school...REALLY late...

Edit: Personally I would have stod up for my beliefs if I had any..but hey, thats me.

/Ankh

OK, as a measure of my personal faith in what I believe to be true:-

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV) "

If I am to be true to my faith, I have to accept the implications of the above verse. There are Christians and there is the rest of the world. Any other system of belief must therefore be misguided, with the possible exception of Judaism, which proclaims a belief in the same God of Christianity, but relies on observance of the Law to ensure fulfilment of God's promise, rather than faith in Jesus Christ.

I know that the above may sound very arrogant and many people will dispute what I've said, therefore I apologise in advance for any offence. But, consider this...
Just suppose for one moment that there really was only one religion that actually did lead to God. Then it would naturally follow that all other beliefs would not lead to God. Therefore, even though making such a statement as shown above might cause offence, it would be wrong to withold such a testimony from the world, because everyone must know the the truth. It would therefore be the solemn duty of all believers to spread this news so that as many people as possible could be saved.

Please note that I've wrapped that last bit in a quote, because it's a hypothetical statement and should not be mistaken as something that I have actually said. So please don't start quoting it as something I've said.

I believe what I believe in. I accept that I could be wrong, but I personally don't think so. There may indeed be other ways in which people can reach God.

Lairiodd
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:00 pm

Post by Lairiodd »

Sardine wrote:To be honest I find it oh so confusing. Sure there's Darwin's theory of evolution, but that's all it is, a theory. Some extremely intelligent man with a huge idea. Yes there is quite a bit of evidence to back Darwin's theory with, however at the end of the day it is still just one man expressing his opinions (which scientists and many others have taken literally as it were some type of 'science bible')
The whole "just a theory" misses the entire point about how science works. Evolution may have been "just a theory" when it was first proposed, but Today, it is a scientific theory that has had centuries of experiment and refinement applied to it.

As time passes scientists propose slight adjustments. If those adjustments match experiment better than the old theory, then the limits of the old theory is determined. For example, relativity gives better predictions than Newtonian mechanics. However, it was also shown that Newtonian mechanics is correct for slow speed. Science showed which theory was better and it also showed when the weaker theory was still reasonable.

This is also what happened with evolution. Small flaws/misunderstanding are corrected as time passes as scientists propose alterations and then those alterations match experiment. Pretty detailed statistical predictions can be made using evolution and they match experiment.

This is what sets a scientific theory apart from some random person proposing a theory. In science, new theories are only accepted if they are checked by experiment. Also, the established theories are constantly checked to see if there are any areas where they are incorrect. This means that theory and experiment act to improve the other branch.
Prydwen
Lairiodd Level 50 Nightshade and Legendary Grandmaster Smith (1065) check prices here
Lairirian Level 50 Mana Mentalist and Legendary Spellcrafter (TDD)
Lairgreybark Level 50 Arb Animist
Lairmindlock Level 50 Bard (TDD)
Camlann
Lairthall Level 35+ Friar

Stocking one 99% of most of the useful spellcrafting gems at Houses 3304 and 3306

Over 150 gems at 99% stocked

<ankh>
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:59 pm
Location: where you least expect me to
Contact:

Post by <ankh> »

Gandelf wrote:OK, as a measure of my personal faith in what I believe to be true:-

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV) "

If I am to be true to my faith, I have to accept the implications of the above verse. There are Christians and there is the rest of the world. Any other system of belief must therefore be misguided, with the possible exception of Judaism, which proclaims a belief in the same God of Christianity, but relies on observance of the Law to ensure fulfilment of God's promise, rather than faith in Jesus Christ.

I know that the above may sound very arrogant and many people will dispute what I've said, therefore I apologise in advance for any offence. But, consider this...



Please note that I've wrapped that last bit in a quote, because it's a hypothetical statement and should not be mistaken as something that I have actually said. So please don't start quoting it as something I've said.

I believe what I believe in. I accept that I could be wrong, but I personally don't think so. There may indeed be other ways in which people can reach God.
Cheers for the reply mate, but as I've said before - I just can't understand how people can be so 100% sure the path they've chosen is the right one when there are billions of people claiming the same even though they are another religion, but I appreciate your reply mate.

Edit: Btw, you said that only a reborn christian is a true christian...but what about the others who call themself christians? Won't they go to heaven? Or will they slip on the stairs and go where I would proberbly end up? :)

/Ankh

User avatar
Tuthmes
Emerald Rider
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:30 am

Post by Tuthmes »

Gandelf wrote:OK, as a measure of my personal faith in what I believe to be true:-

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6 (NKJV) "

If I am to be true to my faith, I have to accept the implications of the above verse. There are Christians and there is the rest of the world. Any other system of belief must therefore be misguided, with the possible exception of Judaism, which proclaims a belief in the same God of Christianity, but relies on observance of the Law to ensure fulfilment of God's promise, rather than faith in Jesus Christ.

I know that the above may sound very arrogant and many people will dispute what I've said, therefore I apologise in advance for any offence. But, consider this...



Please note that I've wrapped that last bit in a quote, because it's a hypothetical statement and should not be mistaken as something that I have actually said. So please don't start quoting it as something I've said.

I believe what I believe in. I accept that I could be wrong, but I personally don't think so. There may indeed be other ways in which people can reach God.
There are so many statements like this in the bible. Like the one you quoted, or you should have the faith of a child, or like one of a mostard(?) seed (you could move mountains), etc, etc. It all comes down to one thing. If you don't truely belief in your god/faith, you neglet it and therefor cannot truely belief in it.
Hence also for someone that does belief in his religion, there is no posible way to go into discussion about it. You cannot doubt your god, cause the moment you do, you loose faith.
Also one could not be as ignorent to belief in a god, that says to mankind; "You heared of me, yet you don't belief in me. Therefor you shell goto hell." If God whas really that great, why wouldnt He grand all people a pass to heaven. Is he really that bad, or do we have ourselfs to blame? What about people that grew up with a different religion? etc, etc.
If Jezus did die for our sins, then why do we have to be punished for it yet again? Anyways, there are so many contradictions in the bible. Also christianity holds but a minority still in the world. Not to mention christianity itself is splitup in more ways i can think off. And if you go even further, one could say that every man beliefs in their own god, no matter if you belong to the same church. Cause your god can never be the same as from anyone else. Infact your whole reality differes from anyone else.

Anyways you could continue this in a different way aswell.
Gandelf, do you want to live forever (heaven)? What would it look like? There's a book about it called "The world in 10 and 1/2 chapters" or something. In the last chapter a guy goes to heaven. All is good, but things start to get boring after he hits every hole a hole in 1 with golf (hey, you got enough time practise) and he's done just about anything you can imagine. In the end the guys just wants some peace and quiet, aka just plain and simply die.

Could turn it a different way again. The universe. It has no end. No matter how you twist it. There always something behind it. Where does God fit into this. Did he just became? Why did he? By what or who? What whas before him? Etc, etc.
Does He know what lay's behind it and what lays behind that again.

Then theres the always fun contradiction.

If God can do everything. He could make a stone so heavy He couldnt lift it. But if He cant lift it, He cant do everything.

All i can say is, have an open mind. Don't let anyone or anything tell you something. In your world, you are the center piece. Doesnt say you have to be a selfish, egocentric person. The world is what you make if it. If you give, you'll recive from others aswell. Good comes from the people itself, not from the bible.

P.s. prolly shitloads of typo's, but cba to get all of them.
----------------------------
Tuthmes - lvl50 - rr7 - Ranja
Nefertete - lvl50 - rr9 - Bardesse
Neterbaiu - lvl50 - rr8 - Eldrich
Koenoe - lvl50 - rr8 - Dr00d
Achnaton - lvl50 - rr4 - Animist
Ausernefert - lvl50 - rr5 - Mentalist
Horemheb - lvl50 - rr3 Chimp
Soulsistah - lvl50 - rr6 Vampz0r
Nebcheperure - lvl50 - rr6 Valewalker
Mayet - lvl50 - rr7 Hewo

User avatar
Heta
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:24 am

Post by Heta »

mucho great post Tuthmes
Woho! I got a 360 \o/
Image

User avatar
Lieva
Emerald Rider
Posts: 5689
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:00 am
Location: On the redundancy train to freedom :D
Contact:

Post by Lieva »

<ankh> wrote:Edit: Btw, you said that only a reborn christian is a true christian...but what about the others who call themself christians? Won't they go to heaven? Or will they slip on the stairs and go where I would proberbly end up? :)

/Ankh
reborn christian = a normal christian

its just a phrase cottoned on to things now adays.

Jesus said you cant come to him without being 'born again'

so if youre a christian (i.e one who follows the teachings of Jesus) then you ARE born again.
Lievaordiea x Eldritch
Peonchants x Enchanter
Hibernia

User avatar
Sharkith
Posts: 2910
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:08 pm

Post by Sharkith »

Lairiodd wrote:This is what sets a scientific theory apart from some random person proposing a theory. In science, new theories are only accepted if they are checked by experiment. Also, the established theories are constantly checked to see if there are any areas where they are incorrect. This means that theory and experiment act to improve the other branch.
This I disagree with. Not all theories are amenable to experiment and if you insist on the experimental method in science you reduce science to one method. Think about astro physics where only a small porportion of theory is amenable to experimentation - does this mean astro physics is not scientific - emphatically no. Mathematics is an area that is more or less devoid of the experiment but it is clearly a science. It all comes down to the difference between rationalism and empiricism.
Na Fianna Dragun

Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter

Eve online - Kaminjosvig.

<ankh>
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:59 pm
Location: where you least expect me to
Contact:

Post by <ankh> »

Banana wrote:reborn christian = a normal christian

its just a phrase cottoned on to things now adays.

Jesus said you cant come to him without being 'born again'

so if youre a christian (i.e one who follows the teachings of Jesus) then you ARE born again.
Gandelf wrote:That's why there is a great chasm of difference between those who say they are "Christian" just because they live in a "Christian" country and those who really are.
Imo according to Gandelf your not a true christian unless your born again - which means everyone who doesnt submit themself fully to god you will end up in hell rather than heaven. I do know in what way he mean reborn Banana, but there are loads of people who belong to the christian society who doesnt go to church or anything...but they do pay money to the church (taxes that is). So my question now is - even these people help the church, you mean they wont go to heaven? Are you Gods followers or his slaves?

/Ankh

Edit: Im no christian and I don't pay anything to the swedish church either. Not 100% sure if I got the above correct, but in that case - correct me :)

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic”