Jesus Camp Trailer

[Selenia]

[quote="Sharkith"]For example Methodists (whose root is within the orthodox armenian tradition) have a doctrine called the 4 A's (I can only remember 3!! ]

That's very similar to the Buddhist belief in the four noble truths:

* Suffering: Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is
suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what
is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the
five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
* The cause of suffering: The desire which leads to renewed existence
(rebirth).
* The cessation of suffering: The cessation of desire.
* The way leading to the cessation of suffering: The Noble Eightfold Path;

All monotheistic religions essentially are fundementally the same, it's just down to interpretation. A *lot* of the Koran for example ties in with a lot of the bible.

[Lieva]

Btw - if we should find life on another planet, would you still belive in the bible?

/Ankh

yus

[<ankh>]

yus

But that makes absolutely no sense Banana. But then again, im sure religion would do what it always do - come up with some fantastic story why their god decided to create another planet. Abit like with the dinosaur remains (it has to be planted by Satan..no doubt about it! LOL)

Oh btw - how the hell can you belive what the bible says when it was written by man and not your god? Especially if you check when it was written and how it was put together.

Edit: 300-400 years after your Jesus death...check history, you cant even be sure what books says about 10 years back..so 1600 sounds waaaay off.

/Ankh

[Sharkith]

Sharkith what is it with your attacks on those questioning religion? Neither me nor Ankh has outright dismissed religion and on the contrary we've both stated that in some cases religions has been beneficial to humans as well as many of the moral principles being fairly good ideas. What we don't beleive is that religion has any place in modern society in that it causes more harm than good in the developed world.

Also, your last responses to me completely ignored things that had already been responded to. Could you at least take the time to read the thread before putting words into peoples mouths and then attacking them for it or making arguments that have already been covered?

Xest,

with due respect I did read a fair proportion of the thread and it repeats itself ad nauseum.

What I find difficult is figuring out just what exactly you and Ankh do stand for. Ankh wants to let people convince him of religion and you seem to think it has no place in the developed world.

If you read carefully what I have been saying you will realise that several of my posts have indicated that the so called modern world owes many of its characteristics to a religious heritage. If you were to try to dismiss it as you so obviously are tripping over yourself to do then you would have to think carefully about some of the so called modern principles that you hold dear and consider if they would have to go too...

I think you will find that is a much more solid critique of your position than me trying to convince you that you should be religious. Like I said before (especially to Ankh) trying to get someone to reason out religion on the basis of logic and within the terms of another creationist myth (Darwinism) seems a bit silly.

I am writing not as a believer but as someone who has quite a deep understanding of religion and religious people. Most of what you guys attribute to them doesn't hold.

Selenia - I agree many monotheistic religions are very similar although it is very difficult to decide if many of them have a root in Baal.

Anyway Xest and Ankh just what point are you actually trying to make? You have both remained silent on:

a) the idea that Darwinism is simply another creationist myth (all societies need one) - you never responded to this.
b) that we owe many of our existing insitutions and practices to religion and if we are to argue deny "that religion has any place in modern society" (to quote Xest) are we not undermining some of the basis of our social institutions (ethics being the major case in point)? what would this society look like if we could not ask the question whether something was good or bad?

Like I said you might have made many points in this thread but I struggle to actually see what your point actually is and would appreciate some direct answers to the queries above.

[<ankh>]

I've been waiting for several answers since the start of the thread Sharkith. I havent ignored your questions but I just havent had the time to read them fully as you started to post after most of the action in this thread was over.

What I find difficult is figuring out just what exactly you and Ankh do stand for

Who said I have to stand for anything particular? Unlike you, I have no need to fit into a specific group. I've told people twice now what I belive in and I don't belive in. I can't really understand which parts you don't understand.

Edit: And when I say I havent had time - for once I actually havent.

/Ankh

[Cromcruaich]

actually

not sure if its factual

but you can read the 'missing' pages to the bible on the internet.
They add more to it to make sence really.

Anyone done the joke yet about the missing first page?

To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.

Also gand, reason that the bible is being dissected here, is because its a discussion thread being held by evangelical christians, who believe in the direct word of the bible as the word of god.

[<ankh>]

Also gand, reason that the bible is being dissected here, is because its a discussion thread being held by evangelical christians, who believe in the direct word of the bible as the word of god.

Exactly. Btw - several times various religious groups have claimed the end of the world was gonna happen on a specific date. All of them have been proven wrong (most of them seem to move the date once they've passed the date they first predicted). What makes you belive the stuff you read in the bible is more accurate than these pathetic predictions?

/Ankh

[Cromcruaich]

Xest,
indicated that the so called modern world owes many of its characteristics to a religious heritage. If you were to try to dismiss it as you so obviously are tripping over yourself to do then you would have to think carefully about some of the so called modern principles that you hold dear and consider if they would have to go too...

Please define which beneficial characteristics you believe are a positive contribution, which you can say without doubt would not of occured without religous bodies of power. The point isnt what the world is with religion, but what i would of been without.

It's a truism to say that it owes its many characteristics to religious heritage, thats because of the dominance of religious belief and complete domination of the church in our very recent past.

[<ankh>]

My point is - you all claim your right. Christians/Muslims/Hinduism/Buddhism/Jewism/Cultists etc etc... so tell me, why are you so sure that the path you have chosen is the only true path? I've asked this question several times in this thread now but had no reply. And as I've said before - I can assure you that there are billions of people that are 100% sure they belive in the one true religion. And Gandelf even claimed that unless you were reborn you were no real christian.
Are you willing to die for your belief? And if so, have you ever thought about the non-christians why they are willing to die for what they believe in? Are they wrong?

/Ankh

[Sharkith]

Who said I have to stand for anything particular?

So is it possible to stand for nothing?

This is partly what I am driving at. I am pushing to expose just what is behind all these questions both you, Xest and others have. If we look closely enough I am a bit concerned we will find nothing. What then for the discussion?