Jesus Camp Trailer

[Xest]

I posted the last post whilst you posted yours Kallima, but as you can see I think there is some good in religions. I think a lot of the principles of religion are pretty good ideas and if religion was just a set of positive moral principles then great, but you and I both know it's far more than that. The only place I think we differ in our feelings is that of how widespread religious indoctrination is and how much it is to blame which is something we probably wont agree on.

I would like to note though that from personal experience in the UK at least I've visited many schools in a technical support role and can say that the majority of primary schools (ages ranging from ~4? to 11 or so) teach heavily religious beleifs. It's pretty hard to find schools that don't have religious preachings littering the walls and just about all schools have religious assemblies at least once a week, often once a day. This is in a developed country - one where religion is fading away the most, I can only guess based on this first hand experience and second hand knowledge of other countries that other countries suffer this problem of mass indoctrination at least as bad.

[Kallima]

I posted the last post whilst you posted yours Kallima, but as you can see I think there is some good in religions. I think a lot of the principles of religion are pretty good ideas and if religion was just a set of positive moral principles then great, but you and I both know it's far more than that. The only place I think we differ in our feelings is that of how widespread religious indoctrination is and how much it is to blame which is something we probably wont agree on.

I would like to note though that from personal experience in the UK at least I've visited many schools in a technical support role and can say that the majority of primary schools (ages ranging from ~4? to 11 or so) teach heavily religious beleifs. It's pretty hard to find schools that don't have religious preachings littering the walls and just about all schools have religious assemblies at least once a week, often once a day. This is in a developed country - one where religion is fading away the most, I can only guess based on this first hand experience and second hand knowledge of other countries that other countries suffer this problem of mass indoctrination at least as bad.

I was amused by your buddhism comment earlier, which in China would probably get you on a hit list for being a Falun Gong follower.

I agree that many schools do teach religious beliefs but a lot of it is more moral guidelines and comparative religions these days. I know my schooling was. Maybe that was exceptional but apart from an analysis of the lords prayer, it was really mostly coming from the moral principles and cultural background awareness point. We didn't do a nativity play. It was certainly a long way removed from get a machine gun and die for Jesus. I agree there is a lot widespread religious indoctrination on the level of these are the main festivals of these religions, and these are their customs, but I don't find that worrying. It certainly wasn't saying you had to believe in it, any more than the easter bonnet parade made us worship the easter bunny. It was more an awareness of other cultures so you could respect them.

I do think that sending children on a Jesus Camp is getting a bit extreme. I think that a basic knowledge of main religions helps prevent people getting drawn in by weird cults. I think kids should then be left to make their own decisions. I dount the Jesus Camp level of religious indoctrination is as widespread as some systematic enforced political indoctrination of children. I'm looking at this globally, and allowing for the fact that large amounts of the world population live in areas where religions are effectively banned and the state compulsorily promotes its politics.

[<ankh>]

But if God doesn't exist and you don't believe in a God at all Ankh, then MY God in MY Bible can't actually be responsible. That's my whole point.

If you're going to pin the blame on God, then you have to accept he (or she) exists, otherwise you're just making hypocritical statements. If God doesn't exist, then how could those things happen that are recorded in the Bible? Were they natural phenomena etc?

So if you don't believe in God, then stop accusing him of doing things.

So what you mean is that if Im to discuss this matter with you - I am now allowed to question or even mention your god? Are you sure you got 140+ on that IQ test? Cos atm your showing no signs of it what so ever.

Mojo - do your stuff...for once it will fit in very well.

Edit: You refuse to answer (or atleast ignore) every god damn relevant question..the only thing you seem to have to time are these kind of stupid replies. And yes, your answer did make me angry.

/Ankh

[<ankh>]

Yes it can be responsible, essentially when he's referring to your god he's referring to the imaginary being that exists in your mind. What he's saying is this fictitious character is responsible as an idea, because that's what god is an idea - he's claiming that the idea of god is responsible which it is. Understand now or still too confusing for you?

Atleast you understod it.

/Ankh

[Xest]

It seemed that religious education class (assuming the school did RE, some didn't but I was under the assumption it was a legal requirement along with Maths and English) was as you state a teaching of all religions however assembly and so forth was focussed purely on the religion of the school as were the displays which were made in classes outside RE.

Some of the most atrocious things I've witnessed, although perhaps not with the schools backing (I don't know either way) is teachers telling kids they can't go to lunch or go home without praying. Whilst that's certainly likely to be unenforceable from a legal standpoint, these kids are often too young to know any better and it reinforces the view that praying is important.

I'm all for RE but the rest of it needs to be abolished by law, it doesn't even fall under free speech, quite the opposite, it forces thousands of kids every year blindly into beleifs without giving them the knowledge they need to look at the situation objectively.

[Kallima]

It seemed that religious education class (assuming the school did RE, some didn't but I was under the assumption it was a legal requirement along with Maths and English) was as you state a teaching of all religions however assembly and so forth was focussed purely on the religion of the school as were the displays which were made in classes outside RE.

Some of the most atrocious things I've witnessed, although perhaps not with the schools backing (I don't know either way) is teachers telling kids they can't go to lunch or go home without praying. Whilst that's certainly likely to be unenforceable from a legal standpoint, these kids are often too young to know any better and it reinforces the view that praying is important.

I'm all for RE but the rest of it needs to be abolished by law, it doesn't even fall under free speech, quite the opposite, it forces thousands of kids every year blindly into beleifs without giving them the knowledge they need to look at the situation objectively.

Dunno where somewhere like that would happen. Standard schools you can just state objections and get excused from all religious assemblies. You are in for the notices about the school netball team losing 184 to nil, but you mooch around outside for the rest of it.

What I really think they should do something about is the dumb books they have for learning to read. I still remember one about someone who lived in a boot and had a hen, and every day the hen laid an egg and they ate the egg. Who writes this stuff? I mean, talk about living below the poverty line, they should have died of a combination of cholesterol and malnutrition.

[Mojo]

So what you mean is that if Im to discuss this matter with you - I am now allowed to question or even mention your god? Are you sure you got 140+ on that IQ test? Cos atm your showing no signs of it what so ever.

Mojo - do your stuff...for once it will fit in very well.

Edit: You refuse to answer (or atleast ignore) every god damn relevant question..the only thing you seem to have to time are these kind of stupid replies. And yes, your answer did make me angry.

/Ankh

That's why I don't get into discussions Ankh, Gandelf is a shining example of someone of faith who avoids the questions, manipulates comments, and uses weak arse arguments and still maintains that he is correct.

It's just better to tell him is a Moron/Idiot etc which i guess is what u think of him right now

[Xest]

Dunno where somewhere like that would happen. Standard schools you can just state objections and get excused from all religious assemblies. You are in for the notices about the school netball team losing 184 to nil, but you mooch around outside for the rest of it.

What I really think they should do something about is the dumb books they have for learning to read. I still remember one about someone who lived in a boot and had a hen, and every day the hen laid an egg and they ate the egg. Who writes this stuff? I mean, talk about living below the poverty line, they should have died of a combination of cholesterol and malnutrition.

I think the problem is probably that the objection has to be done by the parents. The kids are too young to know if they can object, how to object and so forth and the parents are probably largely oblivious to it. As I say it's worryingly commonplace the most obvious schools it occurs most frequently in are ones with things like "C of E" (Church of England), Catholic Primary, those with St. Whoever and so forth in their name however it does also happen outside of these.

[Quinlan]

That's why I don't get into discussions Ankh, Gandelf is a shining example of someone of faith who avoids the questions, manipulates comments, and uses weak arse arguments and still maintains that he is correct.

It's just better to tell him is a Moron/Idiot etc which i guess is what u think of him right now

Dont let him get to you. It is most likely what he is trying to achieve. Mojo is right just ignore it.

[<ankh>]

Dont let him get to you. It is most likely what he is trying to achieve. Mojo is right just ignore it.

Yeah your proberbly right - but its still quite anoying as I kind of tried to have a proper discussion..I should have known better than to talk to that clown.

/Ankh