Jesus Camp Trailer

[Shi]

gah this thread is really to long now to make any sense of it....
anyhow,
Mojo, what has beaten you?

religion always was a matter of faith, with implies there is no scientific evidence to bring.
so what's the deal with such hostility???
in most of religions there is much more to get from it than just slogans and non-prooven stories that some of you guys are attacking here.
human institutions linked with religions can be blamed for many abuses and evil, but religions themselves?
there is a mistical part in human existence and that's where religions and beliefs come, in various forms. 1+1=2 just doesnt cut it, it's too flat if u know what i mean.

[Mojo]

gah this thread is really to long now to make any sense of it....
anyhow,
Mojo, what has beaten you?

religion always was a matter of faith, with implies there is no scientific evidence to bring.
so what's the deal with such hostility???
in most of religions there is much more to get from it than just slogans and non-prooven stories that some of you guys are attacking here.
human institutions linked with religions can be blamed for many abuses and evil, but religions themselves?
there is a mistical part in human existence and that's where religions and beliefs come, in various forms. 1+1=2 just doesnt cut it, it's too flat if u know what i mean.

Name one good thing that comes from religion that cannot be achieved without it?........that’s my problem.

Half the planet believe in things that doesn’t exist and make decisions based on this belief. You don't have to be religious to love thy neighbour and be a good person. I would have more respect for the faithful if they stopped trying to prove the existence of god with weak arguments and just said “hey man I can’t prove it but I have faith”. A lot of religious people due to science and the progression of society now pick and choose which parts of religion to adopt and which to ignore, for me this isn't religion but a personal moral code so let’s give up the religion tag. You either believe or u don’t, follow the code or don’t, not just pick out a few bits and label yourself as the faithful. Less faith and more reason would go along way to solving a lot of issues in this world. Religion divides, it judges and it persecutes.

Mystical, a great cop out for the unexplainable, it was god, it was magic it was witchcraft, well now we know why it rains. Lets move along

[Xest]

Yeah but if I wanted mystical stories I'd read LotR books or something, they're far better Seriously though as I've said before, I don't deny that some of the bible stories and such are pretty good, but to take them as anything more than just stories is silly. The other thing as I've said before is that I agree religion has (and still does) in some cases serve a purpose - that of controlling people, that of providing hope to those in difficult and desperate situations and I think it's great in the latter example that it has done that, but again to take it as anything more, to try and pretend that the whole basis for our existence rests on some stories in a man made book is as crazy as pretending LotR or Star Wars is real, after all Star Wars does begin "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away" so what's to say it didn't happen in some galaxy far far away a long time ago? It's no less credible than the bible's/koran's/whatever's preachings.

religion always was a matter of faith, with implies there is no scientific evidence to bring.

Just a further note, that's not necessarily true, there's nothing to say the existence of a god isn't proveable by science, however the logical conclusion is that if scientific laws don't prove it then it doesn't exist, the illogical conclusion is to claim it exists outside proven laws of science - I'd rather follow the logical path myself.

[Kallima]

Xest has more faith in science than I do. Each generation manages to discover some of the scientific 'facts' of the previous generation are wrong. If people previously have been so wrong, I doubt we know everything there is to know now.

You need true faith to believe in quantum mechanics.

[Ovi]

Just a further note, that's not necessarily true, there's nothing to say the existence of a god isn't proveable by science, however the logical conclusion is that if scientific laws don't prove it then it doesn't exist, the illogical conclusion is to claim it exists outside proven laws of science - I'd rather follow the logical path myself.

Logically just because we are not able to prove something exists does not mean it doesn't exist.

For example, the planets we have recently discovered have been around for billions of years, but we have only just proved that they exist, maybe we just haven't got to the stage where we can prove God's existence.

It is much harder to prove something doesn't exist, especially something which you couldn't see even if it did exist.

[Kallima]

And don't even get me started on dark matter and wimps (weakly interacting massive particles) which we have no evidence exist but logically must do because otherwise the equations don't add up. There is also the other possibility that maybe the equations are wrong because there is something else out there we don't know about but of course that could never happen.

[Mojo]

Xest has more faith in science than I do. Each generation manages to discover some of the scientific 'facts' of the previous generation are wrong. If people previously have been so wrong, I doubt we know everything there is to know now.

You need true faith to believe in quantum mechanics.

People who beleive in science will change their views and opinions when the new evidence becomes available, and they do, that's the point. Scientist don't make discoveries, write them in stone, forget about it, and then preach the same thing 2000 years later.

[Mojo]

And don't even get me started on dark matter and wimps (weakly interacting massive particles) which we have no evidence exist but logically must do because otherwise the equations don't add up. There is also the other possibility that maybe the equations are wrong because there is something else out there we don't know about but of course that could never happen.

I don't recall anyone starting a war in the name of dark matter or quantum physics tbh.

[Kallima]

People who beleive in science will change their views and opinions when the new evidence becomes available, and they do, that's the point. Scientist don't make discoveries, write them in stone, forget about it, and then preach thte same thing 2000 years later.

Well actually its always difficult for the new guy to challenge an established scientific belief, and scientists have been known to cover up evidence that their theories are wrong, and even to fake evidence. They are not all dedicated worshippers at the altar of truth, especially when reputations and money are at stake, but hopefully most are reputable these days.

[Kallima]

I don't recall anyone starting a war in the name of dark matter or quantum physics tbh.

Science may not start wars, its usually power and money, but science comes up with some very nasty ways of killing people. Without science there would be no atomic bombs, no gas warfare, no germ warfare... Science does good stuff too, medicine can help people, but it also got us to the point of being able to wipe out our own species if things go wrong. You could argue we would be better off without it because you can do a lot less damage with bows and arrows. I'm not arguing that, but I am saying few things are solely good or bad, its how you use them.