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Gandelf
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Post by Gandelf »

Xest wrote:Just wondering also Gandelf, if you could answer these questions for me:

What made god?

How long has god existed?

Why does god exist, what is his purpose?

Where is god?

What made the Universe?

How long has it existed?

Why does the universe exist, what is its purpose?

Where is the universe? (I don't mean from the point of view of "we're in it", but what surrounds the universe, i.e. what are it's co-ordinates in whatever it is in?)

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Gandelf
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Post by Gandelf »

Heta wrote:I call my penis god from occasion to occasion

Take a picture of it and publish it on this forum, then let's see how many people agree with you!

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Gandelf
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Post by Gandelf »

Cromcruaich wrote:Now its time for the christians to put forward there theory of how all the species that have roamed the earth came into being. God did it all just wont do- lets get some detail here.

This should serve to at least get you thinking:-

http://www.halos.com/

It may not go into the detail of how species were created, but it does give some reasoning to why some people believe that the Earth was created in a very short time, which then should at least cause you to contemplate the possibility that evolution may not be the way things came about.

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Post by Gandelf »

And for those who feel up to trying to win $250,000 :-

http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=67

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Genedril
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Post by Genedril »

Gandelf wrote: Why does the universe exist, what is its purpose?

Doesn't that pre-suppose that the the universe is concious thought? The universe has no more purpose than the Earth, or a rock.

& if there is a god, & who's to say that the Christian one is correct (let's not even get started on all the different Christian religions that claim that theirs is the 'correct' God) why would he spend his time creating things to trick people? That really doesn't sound like a loving god to me, more the antics of someone who's far to impressed with their own self-importance.

BTW for your halos (interesting I suppose - someone who took up a challenge to attempt to disprove a theory which is what science is all about) try this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos/
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Post by Jupi »

so who here believes that there is other life on other planets.......
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Genedril
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Post by Genedril »

Jupi wrote:so who here believes that there is other life on other planets.......

It's a. Irrational & b. Arrogant to believe otherwise (well at least in my opinion).

Though I had an interesting discussion with a scientist friend of mine (never argue with a molecular chemist!!). Because of the chaos theory and evolution it is likely to happen on another planet (that was my reasoning), but because chaos says the likely will rarely happen then it's not true (damn him!!!). Many an evening was spent down the pub on that one. More than my History & Politics degree could cope with tbh :(. I grasp science & understand it at some levels - after that I just look at it & say.... well give me documented evidence from mulitple sources.
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Post by Lairiodd »

Jupi wrote:so who here believes that there is other life on other planets.......
The probability of life is is obviously non-zero, otherwise we wouldn't exist.

However, it is likely very very low. I doubt that we will find other (intelligent) life. The Fermi paradox is IMO sufficient for that. If we can find them, then they should have found us by now. There is a possibility that we are first in the galaxy or something.

In any case, your question is pretty vague. Do you mean life on other planets in this solar system (No, extremely unlikely), galaxy (very unlikely), observable universe (possibly) and all possible universes (definately).

There is a theory which says that the odds of life occuring is less than once per universe (assuming multiple universes .. or just inflation at the start of this universe resulting in lots of disconnected "universes"). However, since life doesn't exist in one of the lifeless universes, we find ourselves in a universe that has life (Yay :) ) ... but probably only one planet with life.

This basically says that if you modify any of the parameters of the universe (things like strength of the force of gravity and nuclear forces), then the universe will be unable to support life. (stars can't form, they collapse into black-holes or things like fusion not working as Helium is to stable).
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Post by Xest »

Gandelf wrote:If God created the world to look as if it was old, then Carbon dating would be invalid, because all the research that Carbon dating is based on, would have been based on information that was made to look old. Can you see my point? If your point of reference is based on something that you think is true, when in fact it's false, then any results based on that point of reference will be inaccurate.

I'm not saying that God did create the world to look old, but merely proposing a mental exercise based on that idea, to see where it leads.

For the books, I don't personally believe in my suggestion, but I am merely seeing how people respond to it.
Again, you've proved only that you don't understand what you're talking about, carbon dating works based on radioactive decay, so short of everything we know being an illusion (i.e. kinda like the Matrix) then your theory can't compensate for this.
Gandelf wrote:What made the Universe?
Possibly the big bang, whilst not proven it has a whole lot more evidence pointing to it than any creationist beleif which has absolutely no evidence whatsoever backing it.
Gandelf wrote:How long has it existed?
Somewhere roughly around the 15 billion years mark give or take a few billion. Whilst not exact, we know that it is at very least 11 billion years old and at very most 20 billion years old.
Gandelf wrote:Why does the universe exist, what is its purpose?
It has no purpose as it needs no purpose, as has been mentioned it is not a concious being whereas a god is, a god has some purpose else it wouldn't have created life like the creationist beleifs claim. This question doesn't make sense in terms of the universe, however asking the purpose of a god does.
Gandelf wrote:Where is the universe? (I don't mean from the point of view of "we're in it", but what surrounds the universe, i.e. what are it's co-ordinates in whatever it is in?)
It doesn't have to be anywhere, this goes back somewhat to the comments about being able to comprehend the age of the universe and it's something I've found that just about everyone who follows creationist beleifs can't grasp - the sheer scales involved in the scientific ideas, people like yourself and those who shun evolution and such constantly demonstrate they are unable to comprehend correctly scales of billions of years, and also can't truly comprehend what infinity is, this leads to an inability to understand concepts such as time and the speed of light fully. Until you can grasp large scales and what is infinite then you'll continue to struggle to understand these concepts and hence make foolish statements like the above quote.

Now instead of dodging the countless questions you've been provided, can you either choose to begin to answer them, or admit that you can't answer them and that hence your faith is based on the fact you simply don't understand the facts and proof presented to you relating to the alternatives. If you carry on as is it suggests that you really do have absolutely no proof for your beleifs and it's merely nothing more than blind faith.

It feels somewhat like you and others beleive in god because it's the lazy, easy option, it doesn't require any effort, you don't have to really learn about it or question it and test it for yourself like with science, you just respond to everything questioning it with sheer ignorance and nonsensical ramblings.
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Post by nibs »

I whole heartedly agree with Gandy.

And whilst id love to write a lengthy reply arguing the finer points of nipple tweaking i feel i should get down to the point to clear matters up and belay any such rants and raves suggesting he is wrong.

His a visionary. A guy unafraid to speak his mind regardless of the consequences. A gent who does not stick righteous and unbending from things that can be read in a library or proved by a professional. And those of you who persist on maintaining a single minded pragmatic view should be ashamed!

And on this note i'd like to say from this point forth my official religion is that of 'Gandelf'.


Whilst some may percieve my comments as sarcastic, please dont. Single close minded views on things that are non proven and open for debate culminating in persistant put downs of things that variate from what you consider as a norm result in a stagnant non evolving way of life where things penultimatly climax in the monotonous routines that rule your day to day life.

So before you go ahead and persist in forcing your infestuous retorts back at a person willing to deviate and open ideas differing from you own beliefs, take a step back and try to think out side of the box and perhaps throw up some of your own (possibly prepostorous, hopefully incongruous) thoughts and ideas and create your own special brand of potentially inane, yet for all intensive purposes innovative ideas.
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