Jesus Camp Trailer

[<ankh>]

What about the flying spaghetti monster ankh?

http://flyingspaghettimonster.org/

Ye know, Im suprised they arent on the list - I would have expected to see them atleast among the top 5!

/Ankh

[Cromcruaich]

Ye know, Im suprised they arent on the list - I would have expected to see them atleast among the top 5!

/Ankh

I just started reading through some of the posts. Class stuff.

[<ankh>]

One thing that i've thought about lots of time is - in the bible you hear about one miracle after another. How come these stopped all of a sudden? When was the last time you heard something about raining frogs or talking bushes? Or cleaving sea's?? 1600 years ago since the book was assembled and people still put faith into it even though nothing else have happened since (and thats suprising, Moses got gods help to free his people..how come god havent helped anyone else since then? Why havent he striked down with vengence on the muslims who more or less have declared war on the christians??)

Edit: I have to point out that Im not trying to convince you that your wrong, you've made your decision in life and i'm not the one to tell you that you did the wrong one - I'd rather make you try and convince me that I am wrong - but to do that I need to give my view on it first. So go on - convert me.

/Ankh

[Cromcruaich]

One thing that i've thought about lots of time is - in the bible you hear about one miracle after another. How come these stopped all of a sudden? When was the last time you heard something about raining frogs or talking bushes? Or cleaving sea's?? 1600 years ago since the book was assembled and people still put faith into it even though nothing else have happened since (and thats suprising, Moses got gods help to free his people..how come god havent helped anyone else since then? Why havent he striked down with vengence on the muslims who more or less have declared war on the christians??)

/Ankh

There was that resemblance of Mother Therasa that appeared in a blueberry muffin some years ago. Or was it a danish?

[<ankh>]

There was that resemblance of Mother Therasa that appeared in a blueberry muffin some years ago. Or was it a danish?

Haha

/Ankh

[Xest]

One thing that i've thought about lots of time is - in the bible you hear about one miracle after another. How come these stopped all of a sudden? When was the last time you heard something about raining frogs or talking bushes? Or cleaving sea's?? 1600 years ago since the book was assembled and people still put faith into it even though nothing else have happened since (and thats suprising, Moses got gods help to free his people..how come god havent helped anyone else since then? Why havent he striked down with vengence on the muslims who more or less have declared war on the christians??)

Edit: I have to point out that Im not trying to convince you that your wrong, you've made your decision in life and i'm not the one to tell you that you did the wrong one - I'd rather make you try and convince me that I am wrong - but to do that I need to give my view on it first. So go on - convert me.

/Ankh

He's testing our faith!

[Lairiodd]

(In Sweden most people are members by default and give monthly payments in their salary even if they dont want, you have to activly exit it)

There is a similar system in Germany, my sister used to work there and it is hard to opt out of it (or at least you will get a dirty look).

The state should not be doing collections for churches.

[Lairiodd]

I read an interesting article.

Intelligence requires the ability to make accurate predictions. The article basically says that there are 2 major distinct things that humans need to be able to predict. The first is basic (common sense) physics. This is handled by 1 part of the brain. This is pretty rational and accurate.

The second one is social, i.e. modeling other intelligent things. This makes predictions about how other people will react. People are alot harder to predict so this doesn't have quite the level of accuracy.

They call them the physical and the psychological.

The wierd thing that was pointed out in the article is that the linking between the two modeling systems isn't that good. Humans model other people simultaneously by both parts of the brain. They model their body (physical) as distinct from the person (social).

When a person dies, the physics part of the brain says "dead and not comming back", however, this doesn't automatically cancel the references in the social part of the brain. This is what leads to concepts like life after death not being instantly shot down as irrational. It also provides an expanation for questions like what happens a person's soul when they die and also questions like does an AI have a soul. The fundamental problem here is that it is possible for one part of the brain to think about a thing without the other side being involved ... resulting in thoughts about souls without bodies or bodies without souls.

The example they give is asking children questions about a mouse that has been eaten by an alligator. The questions they give are:

Physical:
will he ever need to go to the bathroom?
Do his ears still work?
Does his brain still work?

Social:
is he still hungry?
Is he thinking about the alligator?
Does he still want to go home?

They generally answer No to the first set but more than 50% answer Yes to the 2nd set. This shows that religions build on foundations that are already there. The questions aren't especially religious, so "contamination" is not very likely.

[Xest]

It was a thick brown bottle so they couldnt tell how much was in it.
I believe that tiny little bottle lasted for alot longer than it should have. One droplet given once aday to 20 people. NO way in heck should it have lasted that long but it did. It ran out the exact day they were given better food and no longer needed the vitimins added to their food.
It wasnt frogs falling from the sky but i would class it as a miricle.

Funny that, I get the same thing with those little brown bottles of Olbas oil, every time I have a cold I use it like crazy but it just keeps going and going, I've always said it was a miracle cure for colds!

...or it could just be that it's extremely easy to misjudge how much of a substance is coming out of a bottle like that and also extremely easy to claim something like that is a miracle when you've been through a horrific set of circumstances. There's still no evidence behind it, it's merely extremely traumatised and disturbed people who have been in a horrific situation (i.e. their mental state is going to be completely fucked) saying so

[<ankh>]

Before you read this Banana, I hope you take no offence cos thats not my goal. But if Gandelf chocked me with his first reply - it was nothing compared to what I got when I read yours. I respect your beliefs and don't want you to change them if your happy with them - but some of the stuff you said was pretty much what I would expect to hear from a true fanatic. And also, you brought absolutely nothing into this discussion that made me believe more in god or anything other with religion.

Anyway - enjoy my attempts to reply to what your said.

-----------------------------

hmm
there have been miricales just not as world wide or as major as the afore mentioned bible experiences.

Corrie Ten Boon was christian who helped jews during the war. she was put into a concentration camp.
During their time there they were obviously not fed that well - given all the neutricion their body needs, so they took vitamins given in a small bottle.
One drop to be used on their bread iirc. This tiny bottle was spread out between the whole group in their 'cell' (20 women in total). It was a thick brown bottle so they couldnt tell how much was in it.
I believe that tiny little bottle lasted for alot longer than it should have. One droplet given once aday to 20 people. NO way in heck should it have lasted that long but it did. It ran out the exact day they were given better food and no longer needed the vitimins added to their food.
It wasnt frogs falling from the sky but i would class it as a miricle.

No offence, but that story was...well...pathetic. It doesnt prove anything what so ever. Its nice that she saved them, but there is no real proof that her "vitamins" was the reason they survived. And for all we know, the bottle could have been empty for ages. I'd like a non-religous confirmation on that story.

Also one thing you might wanna remember.
This place is a war zone and it belongs to Satan at this moment in time - not fully mind you as he hasnt come into power but it does.

If it didnt belong to him then how could Satan have offered it to Jesus during the time of trial in the desert?

no no no Banana - your doing exactly what I said that I don't wanna hear. I don't wanna hear any stories from your "great" book. A book written by HUMANS not by
Angels or Gods. Your asking me How Satan could have offered things to Jesus, I can't answer that as I don't belive in jesus or satan. To me its just fairy tales and
nothing else. If you read back in the thread you will notice that I asked for proper proofs - and not bible quotes.

Also people talk in tongues. Real tongues. As given in the bible the day after Jesus went to heaven.

Not sure what your trying to prove with this one... I don't wanna offend you so I wont comment this one.

Belief is a personal thing.
I personally belive in God. There is no doubt in my mind of that. Its just a simple fact. I cant say why I do - maybe its from my parents belief (doubtful, my dad is an athiest) or other. Dunno. There is too much wonder and stuff in my eyes to believe it all occured due to a massive cooincidence.

You got one thing right - Belief is a personal thing. I don't think its anyone else but a personal belief. By that I mean its just what you feel and not how it actually is. These wonders you talk about -
care to share more of it?

Btw Banana...I might aswell aim the same question I asked Gandelf to you too:

So what makes your "path" more true than the rest? Are you trying to tell me that the other houndreds of million on the list below are being mislead and are wrong? And even though it says 2.1 billion Christians - one should not forget the statement you made that some people apparently claim to be christians but according to you they arent. I can assure you that on the list below there are houndreds of million who will say the EXACT same thing that you just did - only difference is that they will claim that YOU are wrong. So please Gandelf, help me understand. And no, no more of this "you cannot understand until you've experienced it" for once I would like proper proof. I also would like you to keep the bible out of this and use your own experience and words for once.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
1. Christianity 2.1 billion (edit: And according to you dear Gandelf, this number is apparently wrong)
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 900 million
5. Buddhism 708 million (see also Buddhism by country)
6. Chinese folk religion 394 million
7. Primal indigenous ("Pagan") 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 14 million
13. Bahá'í Faith 7 million
14. Jainism 4.2 million
15. Shinto 4 million (see below)
16. Cao Dai 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism 1 million
20. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
21. Rastafari movement 600,000

Christianity encompasses many different denominations but the statistics in the source for this document consider them all together for the purposes of analysis.

Edit: I know you havent spoken about being reborn yet..but it would still be nice to her your reply on that question I just quoted. Oh and btw - are you a Reborn Christian?

/Ankh