English as a universal language

Post by **Lairiodd** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:18 pm

Sharkith wrote:No point arguing if you don't get what I am driving it. I prefer diversity and prefer to have it preserved wherever possible. Thats the crux of my disagreement here.

It comes down to what do you think language is for. If you think that it is only for communicating, then the best plan may be "plan Gandelf"

. Quebec (I think) have laws like that. They picked French though. They also did it for culture not for communication reasons.

However, if you think language is for culture, then that wiping out the other languages would be a loss.

In either case, a good option is to pick one language and have everyone learn it as a second language if it isn't their first language. English is not the most popular first language, what makes it useful is that it is the most popular 1st + 2nd langage. In fact "pick" is the wrong word. English hasn't been picked as the main language by any one organisation, it is popular because lots of people have made their own choices.

One other thing, having multiple languages divides the world. There potentially would be less wars if everyone could understand each other. OTOH, people would still find ways to create a them and us situation.

Luz · Post by **Luz** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:22 pm

whieeee

if it were possible, would it be a good idea to cluster together ALL the servers in the world and make RvR zones 10 times larger !?!?

Post by **Lairiodd** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:27 pm

Genedril wrote:Wouldn't be implying that we should all learn Chinese (though which dialect??) as it's used by more people as it's primary language would you?

No, and you gave one of the reasons. There isn't one "main" version of the language (except written). The second is that English has alot of people who have it as a 2nd language. The third reason is that when making a "decision" like this you have to take into account how mobile the people who speak it are. A population which isn't very mobile and thus is unlikely to speak to foreigners should be given less weighting, i.e. why learn a language if there is a very low probability that you will actually speak to someone using that language. (This is why people learn versions of Chinese that are spoken in cities).

Post by **Lairiodd** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:29 pm

Luz wrote:whieeee

if it were possible, would it be a good idea to cluster together ALL the servers in the world and make RvR zones 10 times larger !?!?

There is an arguement that there is an ideal size for a server. If the servers get to populated you lose the "small town" feel.

Luz · Post by **Luz** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:34 pm

in the perfect future I would like to see 1k vs 1k vs 1k fights that went on for entire nights. lagfree ofc. tyvm

If I want that "small town" feeling I play sims-online

ambera · Post by **ambera** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:34 pm

Elrandhir wrote: people talk their own languages in BG's etc now and again, and that really annoying tbh, ofcourse it can happen by mistake, but if I had the BG and someone keept doing so he would be out fast.

Perhaps this is classic British imperial guilt, but I hate the idea of forcing everyone to speak English, even on a designated English-speaking cluster. Obviously if I think people are speaking in their own language to deliberately annoy others or exclude them, that's annoying, but being exposed to the odd phrase of Swedish or Dutch or whatever is great]
However, if you think language is for culture, then that wiping out the other languages would be a loss.[/QUOTE]

I don't think language is for culture, but it is part of it, and a crucial part. I mean, yes you can be reductivist and say that language is 'just' for communication, but a) communication is a vast and subtle and beautiful thing and b) it's not true. Language is what we use to think, to plan, to remember. The language you speak affects your thought processes; it's a large part of what makes you who you are. Preserving languages is not just about some nebulous idea of cultural diversity; it's about permitting different modes of thought. Read 1984 some time.

Not to mention languages have a beauty all their own that's worth preserving for it's own sake.

That said, I don't think languages should be artificially kept alive any more than they should be artificially exterminated; languages change and evolve and as old ones die out new ones are created; it's all good. It just needs to be allowed to happen naturally.

Genedril · Post by **Genedril** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:35 pm

Lairiodd wrote:No, and you gave one of the reasons. There isn't one "main" version of the language (except written). The second is that English has alot of people who have it as a 2nd language. The third reason is that when making a "decision" like this you have to take into account how mobile the people who speak it are. A population which isn't very mobile and thus is unlikely to speak to foreigners should be given less weighting, i.e. why learn a language if there is a very low probability that you will actually speak to someone using that language. (This is why people learn versions of Chinese that are spoken in cities).

Well it was in response to Ovi & I did point out the dialect issues. Though I suppose if you're going to do Chinese then it's going to have to be Standard Mandarin (seem to remember from my student days that it was the 'official' language of those involved in politics & used in a couple of other places outside China).

Bring back Shatner & his Esperanto (or whatever it was).

Genedril · Post by **Genedril** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:36 pm

[quote="ambera"]That said, I don't think languages should be artificially kept alive any more than they should be artificially exterminated]

Apart from Welsh, too many vowels & it reminds me of Kabane!!!

Agree with the rest of it apart from the guilt as I have only half-guilt & I like to pretend I don't even have that. British people seem to fall (very roughly) into 2 camps: Those that feel slightly ashamed of the Empire & the things that it didn't (wasn't the worst Empire by a long shot mind); & those that seem to think that either there should still be an Empire or the England was robbed of it & still stands head & shoulders above the rest of the world. Though I'd never generalise about such things.... ever.... not me.

Langauge kind of reflects the culture & is pretty much tied to it (Eskimo & snow??). It's part of a cultures make up & everything else that Amb says. The Romantic & Germanic languages are pretty distinct & the thought processes (ooppss generalisation time) of those distinct groups tends to be subtly different.

ambera · Post by **ambera** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:39 pm

Too many vowels? Ynfydi?

Sharkith · Post by **Sharkith** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:44 pm

Lairiodd wrote:English is not the most popular first language, what makes it useful is that it is the most popular 1st + 2nd langage. In fact "pick" is the wrong word. English hasn't been picked as the main language by any one organisation, it is popular because lots of people have made their own choices.

It is that popular because there was a time not so long ago when English was the language to be used in the 'official' buisness of India and a few other colonies. Its dominance is as a result of slaughter and conquest. Thats my point. English is dominant as a second language not through the choice of the rest of the world. Even the English people I am close to admit that with some embarrassment. So when I see these arguments I don't see logic I see history and what happened with colonisation - thats once more my main objection.

So I never see it as a simple innocous point like many of you are trying to make it out all your doing is continuing the colonisation process. I know we are talking about a very small place - a server that is only existant in a virtual world but the point is important and should not be glossed over for something as trivial as an ML BG.