EA buys into Mythic..

[Xest]

Its kind of hard to expect good results from programmers who are halfdead when working too imo. If you let them work more normal workdays you might actually get better result too (or atleast if you dont burn them out the way EA do)

/Ankh

Yep, that's the argument for Europe's maximum working hour week - the more of a break people get between work the more productive they are when they're at work. After last Sunday I can certainly attest to that too, I spent 12hrs straight programming, got to about 11pm and hit a problem, was stuck for 3hrs trying to resolve it, in the end I gave up and went to bed at 2am. Went to work the next day, came home played games for a bit etc. to relax then went back to the problem on Tuesday afternoon and sorted it in 20minutes flat. Fact is sometimes the mind just needs breaks to sort out problems in the background, trying to force yourself to solve the problem just ends in brain-lock and the harder you try, the less likely you are to solve it in that session.

[Cryn]

Well a standard working hour week is 37hrs in the UK (worldwide it's 35 - 40hrs) so yes, 45hrs is defininetely classed as overtime seeing as it's equivalent to an extra day a week in working hours

I don't know where you get that standard from. I've only ever seen that in the public sector - where I currently work - and to be quite frank the public sector is filled with workshy and incompetent people from what I can see.

Even companies putting forward a theoretical 37.5 or 40 hour week generally have cultures that push for more. The European working time directive is laughable, since it's an optional scheme and not policed very well, meaning that a lot of companies either opt out or flagrantly disregard it.

Personally, I think the working week should be a short as possible. People work best when well rested, and on top of that, the productivity curve on most activities tails off a lot when you start going over 4 or 5 hour stints. We're nowhere near achieving that kind of effectiveness, though, because it's far easier to set up people's pay and conditions so that half your work-force flog themselves for extra cash and the other half do so because they're made to feel it's the done thing.

[Xest]

Even companies putting forward a theoretical 37.5 or 40 hour week generally have cultures that push for more.

Yep, but that's my point, anything over is classed as overtime, whether it's paid as that is a different question ofc, it's still not classed as part of the standard working hours though. Your run of the mill contracted working hours for the majority of jobs are something like 9 - 5, 8:30 - 5, 8 - 4:30 with a 30min lunch which equates to 37 - 40hrs a week. I'm in the same situation, I'm contracted 37hrs but as I say often push 45hrs a week.

The European working time directive is laughable, since it's an optional scheme and not policed very well, meaning that a lot of companies either opt out or flagrantly disregard it.

It's only optional in the UK, it's mandatory in all other EU states. Also, it's not for the company to opt. out of, it's for the employee - it's entirely their choice as to whether they work more than the 48hr maximum and they have to specifically sign to say if they're willing to do that. Companies disregarding it is an issue however, most likely because most employees probably don't realise that their employer is breaking the law in letting them work longer. Note also that I use the term let because it's also the employers obligation to make sure they don't break this legal maximum, not the employees obligation.

P.S. I know what you mean about public sector, I've been there myself and it didn't take long to come to the conclusion that the majority of UK public sector jobs exist for no reason other than to keep unemployment figures down by providing jobs to the incompetent Another thing I noticed is that whilst public sector often touts equal opportunities and such it's arguably the most ageist and racist employer I've seen such that you wont be considered for managerial positions if you're not "old enough" and that people will get employed because of their colour/disability to fill equality quotas even if said candidate isn't the best choice of all the candidates for the job.

[Cryn]

Well, I'd like to reply, but seems like we're straying way off topic. In the unlikely event we're ever at a pubmeet together, we should ressurect this working hours discussion

[<ankh>]

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsart ... chid=10894

incase you havent read it. I havent read it myself so I dunno if its any good reading or not.

/Ankh