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Shi
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Post by Shi »

Xest wrote:Pfft, DAoC's changed so much in the last year and a half, unless you play both games ofc :) Mythic did a lot to fix downtime etc. also most MLs can be done by 2 good fg now. You only need artifact credit and scrolls to activate an arti now and scrolls are silly high drop rates, means you can just run an all arti-zerg raid and zerg every arti on the planet and be able to activate all with just scrolls, also they level at roughly old style SoM speed which is nice and fast. As I mentioned above it takes absolutely no more than 2 weeks casual play on some evenings then a little longer on weekends to be fully twinked now then you're just free to PvP as you want.
i believe you, i don't comment on present state of DAOC since i got no clue bout it much :)
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Elrandhir
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Post by Elrandhir »

Banana wrote:or you can run one yourself ^^

I don't want to :<
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Lairiodd
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Post by Lairiodd »

omnipresent ruling dkp system
What's that ? (excuse my non-WOW knowledgeness :p )
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Treeeebeard
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Post by Treeeebeard »

Lairiodd wrote:What's that ? (excuse my non-WOW knowledgeness :p )
I think its basicly raid points? not entirly certain tho :P
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Shi
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Post by Shi »

Lairiodd wrote:What's that ? (excuse my non-WOW knowledgeness :p )
think it comes from dragon killing points or sth like that? :)
as Treeeebeard said, kinda 'rading points' used to bid on items. this is to ensure 'fairness' of loot split. all it does is to make sure hardcore players get all the loot they need, since obviously more you raid more you earn of dkps.
thus saying WOW end-game is casual is a joke, since by raiding once a week 3-4 hs u won't get much or nothing at all, as u got always per raid more less 4-7 players of ur class, enuff to outbid ya on all decent stuff if they are less 'casual' than you. so sure u can get sth out of it, but not short term.
this system is used in 20-40 ppl raids, smaller istances 5-10 men usually use normal build in rolling system need/greed random 100 dice...
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Shi
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Post by Shi »

Xest wrote:Mythic did a lot to fix downtime etc.
btw, what did exactly Mythic to fix downtime? anything to game mechanics ? (hp/mana reg, mobs hp, dam etc) or u mean here just spawn times and such stuff? what i meant was mainly the mechanics related to purely classes and fight system, not the environment
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Cernos
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Post by Cernos »

Lairiodd wrote:What's that ? (excuse my non-WOW knowledgeness :p )
DKP = Dragon Kill Points (think it originally comes from the king of PvE grinding, Everquest).

Each raid you attend you earn DKPs. You save these up to purchase loot that drops from bosses in raids. Depending on how your guild works, loot may have fixed DKP prices or a bidding system may be in place when more than one player is likely to want an item (this is more common).

Essentially it means that the best items go to the hardcore raiders, the casuals will rarely if ever get an uber item unless somehow the item has dropped more than anticipated and the hardcore players already have that item (and even then I've heard of items being disenchanted [salvaged] rather than let someone with insufficient DKPs have it).

Pretty horrible system really, but that's endgame Pve in WoW for you. Better than the 'run a raid and give the loot to your chums' approach that crops up in Daoc sometimes, but only just.

Loot is the bane of MMORPGs really but it's what motivates a lot of players so no game developer is going to change it (I recently read that D&D Online which had initially set out to do things different with loot has now put its first steps on the slippery slope that leads to the need for a DKP system).

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Elrandhir
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Post by Elrandhir »

ShiShi wrote:btw, what did exactly Mythic to fix downtime? anything to game mechanics ? (hp/mana reg, mobs hp, dam etc) or u mean here just spawn times and such stuff? what i meant was mainly the mechanics related to purely classes and fight system, not the environment

Well I don't see exactly what you mean, and I don't really see no need for changes classes for PvE matters as it's nice as it is, and couldent really be simpler then it is really imo.
"Well something that could be changed is the Unfairness between classes in PvE"

They changed lots to make ML's faster, Scrolls easier to farm, and removed Artis dropping from mobs, so now you only need the Encounter and book and then get the Artifacts from some NPC's(Really simple and fast now)

Tried WoW for awhile and first it was nice, because it was something new, but I got bored after awhile.
Compared to Daoc it was cra*p really, it dident have what I wanted atall.
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Lairiodd
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Post by Lairiodd »

Cernos wrote:DKP = Dragon Kill Points (think it originally comes from the king of PvE grinding, Everquest).

Each raid you attend you earn DKPs. You save these up to purchase loot that drops from bosses in raids. Depending on how your guild works, loot may have fixed DKP prices or a bidding system may be in place when more than one player is likely to want an item (this is more common).
That sounds fair ... maybe to capitalist for some ? :p This isn't a game mechanic, it is how guilds work ?
Essentially it means that the best items go to the hardcore raiders, the casuals will rarely if ever get an uber item unless somehow the item has dropped more than anticipated and the hardcore players already have that item (and even then I've heard of items being disenchanted [salvaged] rather than let someone with insufficient DKPs have it).
Ok, I don't think destroying anything is a good idea. That is just a waste.
Pretty horrible system really, but that's endgame Pve in WoW for you. Better than the 'run a raid and give the loot to your chums' approach that crops up in Daoc sometimes, but only just.
Actually, I think it seems like a reasonably fair system. Plats in daoc can be considered similar to dkps though as people buy/sell artis :). As you say the problem is the raiding system itself not the distribution system.

The real problem is how to handle it when nobody has any points built up when the guild starts. There needs to be a mechanism to give points to people (or else you need to destroy items, which has the same effect). Maybe allow people to buy up to X% more points than they have earned for cash.

I would probably set up a system where a minimum is set for any item to give a base value to the points. All the items from a raid are auctioned starting at the minimum price. If nobody bids the minimum for an item, it is "bought" by the guild at the minimum price. The points gained by selling all the items are then split evenly between the raid attendees. Also, people can buy the items the guild bought from the guild at a later stage (the price might slowly drop over time ... this also adds more money to the economy, reducing the number of items wasted rotting in the guild vault).

I am not sure how WOW raiding works, does someone on the raid have to be the one to get the item ? If not, then it might be worth allowing people outside the raid to bid on the item (but they have to beat someone on the raid by 25% or something).

This brings up another point, guild vault security. What would be nice would be a system where you can set a security level where more than 1 person is required to remove an item from the vault. A guild vault that requires 3 of 5 officers to remove stuff would be more secure than one where 1 disgruntled officer can remove stuff.
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Treeeebeard
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Post by Treeeebeard »

I bet Its alot worse on alts on WoW then Daoc.

Daoc just do a ml raid and your ml1,2,3,4 ect (Minus the ML xp ofc). Kill a Arti encounter and you dont need to kill it again.

WoW kinda turned me away with its whole raiding system mainly because the need to have to repetedly raid the same areas ect. to build up DKP's for the good loot.and then after youve spent a few weeks/months? raiding on WoW, and decided you want a alt you need to go through the pain of doing the same dungeon again loads. It just sounds repetitive to me and made me not want to bother getting 40-60.

Id rather just go on ML zergs/arti zergs 10 times each:P

Edit: Id probly be more egar to play WoW raids, If the items where done like Epic quests (So like, all 40 get to get the specified item from the specified mob) so it felt less repetitive but i doubt that will happen :P
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