Deleted Thread on FH - read here (concerns Synergy)

[Elrandhir]

I would be quite happy with the system as it's supposed to work now - fg's go to Agramon, if you're in a keep fight or around a bridge, it's a realm war and the fg stuff doesn't apply.

Yeah I know I was abit hard, but still it is what it is about Im better the you and I need to confirm it, I also enjoy winning fairly ofcourse.. I shouldent make it sound to bad, but I have seen to much I Enforce my way of play on forums, many don't see it only like that, but those who do are imo selfish as it is a game with many different players, wanting to play it in many different ways.

Sure I think that fg vs fg should be in Agramon so people could try to come to the agreement of no add in there if possible, and if you go to other places, the bets are off (Well you still don't have to add ofc), those who complain about that don't really want fair fights imo.

[Genedril]

Because some RvR guilds wants their I R wtf p00wn leet yadayada status of haveing killed another I R also WTF p00wn.

I do myself enjoy fg fights, but I belive takeing it to the level where you try to Enforce it on others are silly, if you get those fg fights, Good..great even, but this game would get really boring if everything went as you wanted it all the time.

Technically it's no more daft than trying to enforce a moral code on people in PvE. Want to multi-roll on drops?, go for it; Want to nip in & get that arti? (yeah moot point now), go for it; Want to strip you guilds vaults & furnishings to sell & then move guilds?, go for it; Any form of griefing not covered by the CoC you want to do?, go for it.

Except it doesn't & shouldn't work like that. We live together (albeit virtually) & most of us want to get along. We form bonds with other players (regardless of playstyles) & communties develop. We then talk about RvR & the next thing you know people are resorting to insults I last heard in the playground & things are polarised.

Slayn's original FH thread was to do with lying more than anything else - yes it was about adding, but it could have been over a PvE encouter. The thing is if you say 'we wont add' & then fight in what's supposedly an add free zone by consensus (people wanted the RvR groups to go to the Isle of Lag to stop this whole sordid mess) & then add & compound it by lying about it, how's it different from being invited to a guild, saying I will not steal from you guys & then doing just that & lying about it afterwards?

For the record: Despite running in a fairly fixed group twice a week I feel if you walk over solo'ers you deserve to have them add on you. If you farm people 3 yards from a zerg you deserve to have people add on you. If you choose to take your RvR group to the masses all gloves are off. You've decided to go there, you take the consequences. However, if you make a concious effort not to do that & try to fight somewhere that is supposed to be away from the mass of people that you know are going to pile in do you deserve it? I don't think so.

I'll never flame people for adding, I'd prefer they didn't but I rarely get all I want in life & throwing insults is hardly likely to improve anyones view of anything. Some people choose to play one way, some the other, some play both - we all just need to get along & try to understand each others view point.

[Haarewin]

It's definitely not about rp's. It may to some extent be about status, as Elrandhir suggests in his charming way. But what it's mostly about is skill. Now, I am not suggesting that nobody who doesn't play 1 v 1 or 8 v 8 is a skilled player, far from it. People who lead raids, people who play well on raids, heck, even particularly efficient zergs, all need a certain amount of skill. People who run in small groups undoubtedly do. But, for me, there is something uniquely rewarding about developing the skills needed in fixed-group 8 v 8 play.

FG RVR is difficult. It takes a long time to build a strong team, and a tremendous amount of effort and soul-searching, as you discuss and dissect and try this and try that and respec and re-template and discuss some more... and in the end what really makes the difference is practice. You want every fight to stretch you a little bit, to teach you something. The best fights are the ones that are close and both teams play well, but getting your arse handed to you by a good group is better than getting zerged, or getting 'helped'.

At the end of every fight we ask ourselves 'OK, what happened there? Why did we win/lose? What did we do? What did the enemy do? What can we do better next time?' If the fight was won or lost because another group turned up or a bunch of stealthers PA'd your mages, you just have to shrug and forget about it - you can't learn anything. Against another 8 players, you can apply tactics, you can anticipate, you can learn their moves. Against adds you're stuffed, there's nothing you can do.

Our group takes a pretty philosophical approach. We don't flame anyone, we don't even yell at them, we just carry on and hope for a clean fight next time. We don't have a kill-on-sight list, and we don't roll soloers. But if you leave one of our fights, we will love you long-time.

QFT!
I'd be proud to be in a group like yours. I was in one for a while, but all good things eventually come to an end RvR hasn't been the same for me since my first fixed group. Long gone are the days of my yellow and purple cloak. Ah, nostalgia.

[Genedril]

If mythic intended RVR to be 1v1 and fg v fg then WHY did they introduce methods of gaining RP's by HELPING others in a rvr situation. If i am in a 1v1 fight and a druid turns up there isn't much damage he can do. So what WERE his options:
Ignore me, Try and help by stripping.

New options:
Heal me for rp's,
Strip buffs for rp's,
Root for RP's,
he can even Rez me for Rp's at the end if he wants...

the game has been changed by the designers and all the people who think that we are still in emain with its MG's and 1fg v 1fg cause thats the only way to get rp's are living in carebear land. Seriously this game is about beating the living hell out of somone from another realm who WE AS CHARACTERS have been brought up to HATE AND DESPISE to a point where if we see one we will go OUT OF OUR WAY to kill the bastards.

If Mythic had intended PvE not to allow loot styling, kill stealing, multi rolls, player duping, item stealing etc why oh why have the left in the ability for you to do so??

Not all of us hate the enemy. Heck, despite some of my voice comms antics & comments I actually respect a lot of them for various reasons. Not just FGvsFG people either. Anyone that can lead a relic raid successfully multiple times from another realm deserves respect (& I'd bet serious money on the fact that Aran (& others) has his admirers in opposing realms for just this). I don't PvE with them, but any successful PvE raid leader also get's my respect. So there you go, it's a differing view point - no more or less valid than your own. Even in real conflicts there are countless examples of one enemy respecting another for various reasons, lifes funny like that.

Amb's right about only one group being able to 'enforce' a playstyle in game. It may be why the other group tries to defend their's so vigorously in forums.

[Gandelf]

With regards to moderators:-
1. I don't use FH much, so I can't comment on that forum's moderators.
2. On Prydwen Net, I have to agree that the moderators are quite fair and do a good job, even though I admit I've provoked their wrath on several occasions.
3. About moderators in general:- They are human and do make mistakes. They are entitled to their own opinions. However, moderators I feel, should set an example and avoid making statements that are contentious. They should NEVER take sides, however much they are tempted to do so. Personally, I think moderators should be voted in and serve a pre-determined time in "office". When that time is up, then the forum community should nominate others for the roll of moderator and vote for them. I certainly don't think moderators should be moderators "for life", unless they are consistently voted into office.

With regards to adding:-
1. By and large I identify with Norcott's point of view. If it's in the game, not against any official rules and is not exploiting a known bug (as identified by the game developers) then it's fair.
2. I can sympathise with those who don't believe that adding is "sporting", however...
3. Having rules of engagement will never work, so there's no point drawing up any such rules. Anyone who tries to introduce such rules and expects a) Everyone to abide by them and b) Thinks they will work, is living in "Cloud Cuckoo Land". Even if a number of people do agree to abide by the rules, eventually they will break them... that's only human nature, because everyone breaks/bends rules to suit themselves (e.g. how many drivers have broken the speed limit, intentionally or otherwise?)
4. The only way to permanently resolve the adding issue is for Mythic to introduce coding that prevents adding.

Finally, war is war. It's not meant to be anything else, other than ugly. What is it good for? (don't reply with the words to the song).
There was one moment in WW1, one Christmas, when the opposing forces agreed not to "add"... it was when they tentatively crawled out of the trenches and played football in "No-Man's Land". It was a very brief moment when an agreement was reached, but what happened? Yes, the Generals ordered them to carry on fighting... so the "rules" came to nothing!
Just be thankful it is only a game and that you are not stuck in a trench in real life with shells exploding all around you and where every other person has dysentery.
Enjoy the game for what it is... a chance to have fun without any real threat to your life! Eventually Mythic will make you the game of your dreams!

[Genedril]

With regards to moderators:-
....
3. About moderators in general:- They are human and do make mistakes. They are entitled to their own opinions. However, moderators I feel, should set an example and avoid making statements that are contentious. They should NEVER take sides, however much they are tempted to do so. Personally, I think moderators should be voted in and serve a pre-determined time in "office". When that time is up, then the forum community should nominate others for the roll of moderator and vote for them. I certainly don't think moderators should be moderators "for life", unless they are consistently voted into office.
....

Mods are human, they make mistakes. We're pretty lucky in this neck of the woods though. Mods are human, it's human to have opinions & take sides. Why shouldn't they be able to? What they shouldn't do is then use their mod powers in any arguement, nor should they bear a grudge for a disagreement & use their mod powers at a later date just to get one back.

Mods should be mods for as long as they want to be, it's a thankless task (thanks mods!!! ]constructively[/B] say so or leave the forum.

[Shike]

I agree with 99% of what Shike gets at, but... if people starting adding on Synergy (as you seem to be suggesting - my apologies if I read it wrong) a. You're doing what you condemn someone else for doing & b. You're spoiling the fight of the other people involved (who were initially engaged with them).

However, if you're suggesting that if you're fighting another group & Synergy come along then you all pile after Synergy and ignore each other (unless it's an alb group then, they all nip off & put the kettle on) then that's a different kettle of fish (community justice can be a harsh mistress to annoy).

Aran has a point about fair fights, we're not all lvl 1 bases classes after all. What's fair, how do you decide it - why don't you want adds, where are add's acceptable, why fg's shouldn't steam roller solo'ers. These are points to talk about & try & come to some agreement that doesn't involve hurling insults around.

Well I'm not suggesting everyone to add on Synergy as is, thats not it (groups do whatever they want to anyway..). I am just saying what eventually most likely will happen when enough people are fed up with their lousy style, unless they try to change, since they go to an area where groups go to have FGfights without tossers around who doesnt care about anything and just add anyway, whenever they want to. It's not written in any book or in some CoC that you cannot add on agramon, its just a simple agreement between those groups that started to go there for fullgroupfights. If you dont play by those rules, then what are you doing there in the first place? Why persist on following the FGplayers around like an annoying parasite and leech? Thats just silly behaviour

You know what the best thing is? You dont have to go there, read that and reread it again, You dont have to go there. If you choose to go there, you know that you are likely to face welltrimmed machines that are good at killing stuff Meaning, if you have a group built for it, or dont mind dying alot, go go have some fun, learn some stuff there perhaps too! Practise, get better, it is the only way to live on agramon. If you feel its nothing for you, You dont have to go there.

Outside agramon, who gives a crap about anything, really? I havent seen many that do, its just zerglings allover the place but it would be nice if agramon could stay the way it is at least, so there is somewhere one can go for fullgroupfights, without alot of people jumping into the party for easy RPs.

[Satyn]

Ok, so if I get it right its because you spend a lot of blood sweat and tears in your char and set groups that you dont want ppl adding to your fights?
You rather die to a full grp than get help?
Its about status and becoming well known by mids and albs?

[Genedril]

Good job I apologised in advance .

I stick to the same rules in & out of Agramon. I can't deem one set of players worthy of a certain level of respect & not another. Though in a FFA zerg/relic raid/keep defence situation it's then about helping the allies & nothing else. If I find a FGvsFG fight outside of Agramon I'll leave it alone just as I would inside it. Solo'ers are no go where-ever they are really.

Not really Satyn, at least not from my view. It's testing, it's practise, it's hard work, it's what some of us find fun. Yes, I'd by far rather die to a full group than get help in a FGvsFG situation (qualifiers all over the place here ). I don't care what the alb's & mids think of me - though I'd prefer it if they'd be slightly less disparaging then the Maelstrom Skald was when we met in person (yes he was better than me, yes he was higher realm rank - but I'm older than him & my 'twitch' skills aren't what they were).

[Sharkith]

Amb's right about only one group being able to 'enforce' a playstyle in game. It may be why the other group tries to defend their's so vigorously in forums.

this is the one thing I have left unsaid but it is the one thing I am deeply proud of. The anti add - hey its not against the CoC so it must be ok and your all evil leet wankers point of view has finally once and for all been exposed as a very subtle form of stereotyping. For once that whole position has been exposed as equally prejudiced but potentially much more damaging because it comes from a position were the person does not have to care about anyone.

For once it begins to appear that in fact there is a logic and a reason behind FG RvR and the people that like that also have more personal rules and ethics that reflect a thoughful and careful approach to others. When you run to play in a group and you join that community of people you don't seperate yourself you spend an evening sharing in the celebration of something good. Even when you get pwned as we frequently do

I am deeply proud of that and I am also thankful that the group of people I play with and the community within the community that have introduced me to this. They have taught me so much that is of value no matter how much others like to try and misconstrue it or no matter how much it is misunderstood.