Deleted Thread on FH - read here (concerns Synergy)

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Jarahl
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Post by Jarahl »

Cromcruaich wrote:Your missing the point. Synergy claimed vociferously that they didnt add. A member of the group actually accussed me of lieing about the series of events that I described in the thread and which fortunately Slayn had recorded.

The thread then went on to be locked by a member of synergy (eggy), who sought permission from a fellow alb (film) who is in any case is far from sympathetic with the 8v8 fights that a large part of the community like to participate in.

Argue what you like it is unreasonable and self interested censorship. Personally if I was a moderator I would be much less likely to censor a forum which referred to myself or my guild than if it didnt.

Now its clear to anyone who runs in agramon after 8v8 fights that Synergy do add, contrary to protests by Synergy themselves. Now its been demonstrated that their protests are essentially worthless.

Now thats not to say that if they want to enter into the spirit of matching themselves against like minded groups in 8v8 rvr that we won't respect their full group fights, in fact we will if that is something they genuinely want to aspire to, however if they dont aspire to that then they need to cut the bullshit that they don't add and just get on with it. They will however find themselves in a situation where the people they add on will just stop and flatten them before retreating away to have another go.

I sincereley hope that they aim for clean 8v8 fights in the future while running in agramon. Overall i'm sure you will find this more personally rewarding than pissing on other peoples parades. I'm speaking from a position of a guild group that has gone through having a deservedly bad rep for adding some 8 months ago, to one who has then since decided to turn things and around and now gets a lot of enjoyment from testing ourselves against other like minded groups.

I've read the thread, and what happend that day certainly seemed like a clear add from Synergys side, and for that I apologize, even tho I wasent in the group. However Synergy has never, at least not when I've seen/heard it, whined about other groups adding on us.

What Beeks said is completely up to him, I wasent there so cant testify to anything that actually happend at that time, however I can say that we often aim to get 8 vs 8 fights, but seems that people cant get over 2 year old grudges and permanently have us on their ADD ON SIGHT list. This makes it very hard to us to get clean 8 vs 8 fights, thus getting frustrated and sometimes people do strange things when frustrated. I dont defend anyone, just trying to explain what might have happend.

And Penlid would you grow up and try living in the real world aswell? If you are a policeman and some of your closest family does something against the law, you cant handle the case seeing you might be suspected to have personal intrests. Same with Eggy, his guild was involved in the current matter so he turned to Film to make the call, since Eggy would have gotten flamed for making it himself even tho it was straight forward. And now you still flame him? Cant you really get into your thick skull that he actually did the right think?

Anyways some good points you posted there Cromcruaich and I will for one try and discuss this further with my guild mates. But im just an ickle Cleric, not much I can do :p

Also let me add, I agree with Eggy on the Mid vs Hib matter. Nothing is more fun that a 3 way fight, and lets face it, Hibs and Mids are Albions enemies :)
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Jacob

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Sharkith
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Post by Sharkith »

at last a discussion!

By the way I have had some very long thoughts about this very issue and I posted it here. I am trying to ask people to be tolerant and I hope that we can have a decent discussion about what happened. Being able to discuss it here would be nice.

This thread was very funny and as Slayn has said it wasn't even an attack but was going to be funny. Eggy give his reason here and frankly he just sounds more and more beligerant - for those who want to know Flim did say to scrutinise Mod behaviour and feel free to let him know about anything that is unsettling.

Lets keep the open spirit of Pryd.net and lets not get into lockings here. Its about time we had something decent to sink our teeth into.

Sharkith
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naic
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Post by naic »

Jarahl wrote:Also let me add, I agree with Eggy on the Mid vs Hib matter. Nothing is more fun that a 3 way fight, and lets face it, Hibs and Mids are Albions enemies :)
And that's where history repeats itself...
?!

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Sharkith
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Post by Sharkith »

Jarahl wrote:I've read the thread, and what happend that day certainly seemed like a clear add from Synergys side, and for that I apologize, even tho I wasent in the group. However Synergy has never, at least not when I've seen/heard it, whined about other groups adding on us.

What Beeks said is completely up to him, I wasent there so cant testify to anything that actually happend at that time, however I can say that we often aim to get 8 vs 8 fights, but seems that people cant get over 2 year old grudges and permanently have us on their ADD ON SIGHT list. This makes it very hard to us to get clean 8 vs 8 fights, thus getting frustrated and sometimes people do strange things when frustrated. I dont defend anyone, just trying to explain what might have happend.

And Penlid would you grow up and try living in the real world aswell? If you are a policeman and some of your closest family does something against the law, you cant handle the case seeing you might be suspected to have personal intrests. Same with Eggy, his guild was involved in the current matter so he turned to Film to make the call, since Eggy would have gotten flamed for making it himself even tho it was straight forward. And now you still flame him? Cant you really get into your thick skull that he actually did the right think?

Anyways some good points you posted there Cromcruaich and I will for one try and discuss this further with my guild mates. But im just an ickle Cleric, not much I can do :p

Also let me add, I agree with Eggy on the Mid vs Hib matter. Nothing is more fun that a 3 way fight, and lets face it, Hibs and Mids are Albions enemies :)
Jarahl,

a very nice post and like I have said before over on FH - all that is needed is a discussion. Both over there and here eggy has felt the need to flame rather than engage in maybe sharing mistakes and things like that.

It takes balls to say - hey you know we fucked up and sorry. It is not gutsy to hide behind a mod. Eggy was in a privilaged position because he could ask if he could lock the thread. If you cannot see that he had some power to be able to dominate the discussion then I do think your being naieve.

To be really honest the incident and what happened is water under the bridge, what I seriously want is to have a meaningful discussion openly with eggy about his stated policy on adding.

If he wants to be open and to avoid flaming lets do it here and now. I am more than willing to listen and to discuss his ideas on their own merits. Is he strong enough to confront that?

If you want to discuss it on his behalf lets start a thread with the stated policy and lets discuss its relative merits.

kind regards

Sharkith
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Slayn
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Post by Slayn »

Jarahl wrote:but seems that people cant get over 2 year old grudges and permanently have us on their ADD ON SIGHT list. This makes it very hard to us to get clean 8 vs 8 fights, thus getting frustrated and sometimes people do strange things when frustrated.
It's not to me to judge your reasons for *why* they may add. It is clear though that whatever frustrations you have, adding more on people will escalate the cycle, and you will get more insta-add on you and get even more frustrated. Worth pondering.
Same with Eggy, his guild was involved in the current matter so he turned to Film to make the call, since Eggy would have gotten flamed for making it himself even tho it was straight forward.
Well actually Eggy deleted a thread without consulting any other mods, I know because it happened almost instantly. But that's not the issue for me really. The point is that whatever the motivation behind the mods actions, they had a resulting effect of protecting Beeks. He had just been exposed as lying in a thread and the thread is locked. The next thread that makes mention of him lying is again locked. And the next is deleted. I'm sure mods could see that whatever they wanted to do with the threads, if they had allowed some out-let for Beeks to at least be confronted (and for that matter to defend himself), there would be no frustration on my part and others.

There is no getting away from the fact that *the mod actions protected him*, be it directly or indirectly. With some intelligence and discretion you can see that me and others are not annoyed that mods are following CoC, people are annoyed that there is no outlet being given to expose someone who was rude and dishonest to a number of people. This is what doesn't sit well, and the FH mods have just been dancing around this point by handing out warnings and telling people not to add-whine. It's just pretty bait if you ask me.

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Post by Sharkith »

eggy wrote:No, I went to Flim as I didn't want to be biased, so let him decide if the thread should be closed. He decided that indeed, it should be. It's not about "permission" to close a thread. If I want to close a thread, I can. I checked with Flim in the interests of fairness.
Yes eggy and because of your position of power you could do that. You said you will discuss your policy with anyone - so lets discuss it :) I promise no flames just an analysis of its relative merits and weaknesses.
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Post by Lieva »

come on guys
nuff bout the FH mod slagging.
How would you like it if our mods were being moaned at over there?

Keep to the discussion but stop with the mod slamming ok?
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Post by Sharkith »

Banana wrote:come on guys
nuff bout the FH mod slagging.
How would you like it if our mods were being moaned at over there?

Keep to the discussion but stop with the mod slamming ok?
Banana this is about as political as it gets its very difficult to seperate the context of the discussion from the fact that they could do it. All they have to do is come and start a positive discussion - fill the void with some decent points and come and share their views. I don't see them doing that all I see is curt responses from eggy at least Jarahl seems willing to talk about it.

If they want to discuss their add policy I would say to them come on out then and lets be adults about this. Start a thread Jarahl or someone from Synergy and then we can all advise - trust us there are people here who have been where you are - like I said to eggy in my pm to him Crom and many others can chat from experience.

Making a claim like I pay my subs I can do what I like might have some truth content but the fact is the policy is having an effect on your in game experience. Why not confront it? It make emminent sense to be open about it.

:)
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Jarahl
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Post by Jarahl »

Sharkith wrote:Jarahl,

a very nice post and like I have said before over on FH - all that is needed is a discussion. Both over there and here eggy has felt the need to flame rather than engage in maybe sharing mistakes and things like that.

It takes balls to say - hey you know we fucked up and sorry. It is not gutsy to hide behind a mod. Eggy was in a privilaged position because he could ask if he could lock the thread. If you cannot see that he had some power to be able to dominate the discussion then I do think your being naieve.

To be really honest the incident and what happened is water under the bridge, what I seriously want is to have a meaningful discussion openly with eggy about his stated policy on adding.

If he wants to be open and to avoid flaming lets do it here and now. I am more than willing to listen and to discuss his ideas on their own merits. Is he strong enough to confront that?

If you want to discuss it on his behalf lets start a thread with the stated policy and lets discuss its relative merits.

kind regards

Sharkith
Well first of all - let me state that the posts from my behalf is MY PERSONAL oppinion, since im not a Guild Master I cant speak on behalf of the whole guild.

I do enjoy a fair 8 vs 8 fight, so I often encurage the others to hunt these.

Regarding the whole "If Eggy did the right or the wrong thing on FH" issue you will never get me convinced that he did something wrong, something could have been done different, but everything in this world can be done different am I right?
Slayn wrote:It's not to me to judge your reasons for *why* they may add. It is clear though that whatever frustrations you have, adding more on people will escalate the cycle, and you will get more insta-add on you and get even more frustrated. Worth pondering.



Well actually Eggy deleted a thread without consulting any other mods, I know because it happened almost instantly. But that's not the issue for me really. The point is that whatever the motivation behind the mods actions, they had a resulting effect of protecting Beeks. He had just been exposed as lying in a thread and the thread is locked. The next thread that makes mention of him lying is again locked. And the next is deleted. I'm sure mods could see that whatever they wanted to do with the threads, if they had allowed some out-let for Beeks to at least be confronted (and for that matter to defend himself), there would be no frustration on my part and others.

There is no getting away from the fact that *the mod actions protected him*, be it directly or indirectly. With some intelligence and discretion you can see that me and others are not annoyed that mods are following CoC, people are annoyed that there is no outlet being given to expose someone who was rude and dishonest to a number of people. This is what doesn't sit well, and the FH mods have just been dancing around this point by handing out warnings and telling people not to add-whine. It's just pretty bait if you ask me.
Let me again state the posts from my behalf is MY PERSONAL oppinion, since im not a Guild Master I cant speak on behalf of the whole guild.

About the whole adding thing, you are absolutely right, its a vicious circle, but we cant really get rid of it, about 1 month ago I was even every GG we had for about 14 days, we didnt add ONCE, but still got added on. Mainly PuGs but also GGs :( This gets frustration as said before, enough of that.

Eggy followed the CoC on FH and closed and locked threads when they got too "flamey", however its clear to all that Beeks was wrong. However I do not know all the facts from that night so I had no idea what triggered that fight, maybe someone who looked alot like you added on Synergy just moments before? Again im not trying to defend anyone since I wasent there, but just dreaming up explinations.

Alot of times on FH I seems to ponder alot over the fact that ALOT of people make threads instead of just PM'ing. Alot of the threads are personal matters, so why not PM?

Im more than happy to reply to whatever questions you may have, but it will have to be on a personal level, cant say Im some sort of Synergy ambassador.
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Jacob

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Post by Quinlan »

Sharkith wrote:Banana this is about as political as it gets its very difficult to seperate the context of the discussion from the fact that they could do it. All they have to do is come and start a positive discussion - fill the void with some decent points and come and share their views. I don't see them doing that all I see is curt responses from eggy at least Jarahl seems willing to talk about it.
Think banana more ment to keep it civilised. IE no flaming the FH mods as some people have done in this thread, not you. Ofcourse normal discussion arent a problem but refrain from taking it down the drain.
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