The importance of being earnest... er honest

[Sharkith]

From a 'judge in a court' point of view, yes.

My word (to Kemor/GOA) is worth the same then signing an NDA. And if this thread prooves anything, its simply that some people will do literally everything for their 15 mins of fame and bashing when they dont get it their way(s).

Grats to those gaining some virtual ePeen over the backs of people who trusted you (GOA). Thinking (and perhaps being right) that the communication was at times severly lacking is one of the weakest excuses to, on your own behave, releasing information which was given to you in the first place on a confidential bases.

Trust cuts two ways Puppet. GOA cannot escape that easily because they have a duty of care to the E&E volunteers.

For a company that has demonstrated no humility to its users it does not surprise me to find that some people who were in this so called inner sanctum felt that their trust in the ogranisation was being destroyed. You can blame the invidiauls but that once more shifts the analysis away from the relationship which after all is what actually broke down here.

A lot of you guys are still side stepping this very basic issue. I am not an insider and I can see it very clearly - now just because your still in that relationship does not give you a right to judge. What would help would be an analysis from you concerning why you feel that your continued trust in GOA is justified.

That would be much more constructive and you would do GOA many more favours by stating that. Try to stop attacking the indivduals and help us understand why on this occassion two volunteers felt their trust in the company was being betrayed? Then explain to me why you feel your continued trust is justified - that would seriously help us all.

kind regards

Sharkith

[awarkle]

If you want to look at a system where comunication has totally broken down then check out the starwars galaxies forums.

Once you read through any of those posts you will realise that us as DAOC players dont really get it that bad.

OK there is lag on the servers which is quite bad but goa do try and get it fixed in a timly manner. our servers are barly ever down and when they are down its for a damn good reason.

You want to read some of the posts on the swg forums they would make you pray and worship the feet of goa. If anything its a prime example of why keeping your comunity informed is important but telling them everying isnt probbly wise. The swg comunity got totally shafted worse than the prydwen crash. Think about it if mythic anounced a patch that would mean you had to reroll you char from lvl 1 and couldnt be say a mana chanter, or that those galladoria or artifact items you are currently wearing next patch wouldnt work and you would have to remove. Or unique items that you have farmed mobs for and are selling on your cms suddenly got removed because noone could wear them any more.

And to top it off that the entire game got changed the servers are laggy and are down 2 days out of 7 for at least 5 hours.

And you pay more for the service.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/

Yes goa have to work a bit more on comunication to the comunity but how much comunication do you want ?

do you want the website updated constantly with stuff like

Btw Requiel has just left the office to get a sandwhich and will be back in 5 minutes with a mars bar and a coke for Enviros.

Or do you want relevant information like

Servers will be taken down on monday for xxxx reason,

or do you want a counter up in the top corner saying "right now messages currently in the queue"

there is only so much information a company can divulge to the players and tbh the comunity has proven in the passed that when given too much information they just threw it back in the companys face.

now do you think XML was fixed because you lot complained to mythic over it or do you think XML was fixed because the GM's had to change what they were doing to bring the XML back up ? IE not doing character restorations.

anywho ill stop posting it seems we have two parties those that think goa do a crap job and those that think they do an alright job. Either way is the cost worth it for the original poster ?

[Ovi]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Defending Keriwen by saying that it's Goa's fault for not being better isn't, imo, a valid argument. Posting this thread was wrong, whatever Goa's faults, there simply isn't anything in the content to justify the breech of trust.

Having said that, on the bright side, I think this thread has actually turned out significantly better than I feared it would. Although there has been plenty of disagreement it actually feels much more like civilised discussions of old

[Puppet]

Trust cuts two ways Puppet. GOA cannot escape that easily because they have a duty of care to the E&E volunteers.

For a company that has demonstrated no humility to its users it does not surprise me to find that some people who were in this so called inner sanctum felt that their trust in the ogranisation was being destroyed. You can blame the invidiauls but that once more shifts the analysis away from the relationship which after all is what actually broke down here.

First of all, two wrongs doesnt make one right. Even if some has a feeling GOA isnt holding part of its 'bargain', it does not give you the right to break your promise just because you see fit to do so. So yes, I blame those individuals.

From my 'internal' experience, without saying too much, I didnt see a clear indication either of them did something constructively to improve the situation rather then mindless bashing, ranting and just stirring up the discussion. Not exactly the best way to improve the problem and working on a way to improve it.

A lot of you guys are still side stepping this very basic issue. I am not an insider and I can see it very clearly - now just because your still in that relationship does not give you a right to judge. What would help would be an analysis from you concerning why you feel that your continued trust in GOA is justified.

Silly again, just because you think Im not in the position to judge, this again is based on nothing but very limited information and pulled out of context. Same could be said towards you 'You are not an insider and missing alot of facts, you're not in a position to judge'.

We're splitting hairs here, in the end, breaking one side of the pact by giving out information which was not 'for your ears' isnt gonna resolve anything, except giving the 'outsiders' some new fuel, and giving the 'insiders' a now valid reason to think twice about saying what to the E&E's. Im sure thats all very constructive to really solve the issue. NOT

Try to stop attacking the indivduals and help us understand why on this occassion two volunteers felt their trust in the company was being betrayed?

Im not in the position to take wild guesses on why they think their action(s) are justified. I got my ideas about it, and Im rather sure them being in the same guild also helped the cascade-effect.

In the end I find the discussion very futile, because the majority of you guys is missing some vital information, which is still, from my PoV, as being given to me as confidential.

Keep guessing and stirring the kettle, because to be fair, that's what I think this thread is all about. Basing opinions on very inconclusive and wrong information, which now, to some of you, are 'given facts'.

[HappyG]

First of all, two wrongs doesnt make one right.

I dont agree here

Players can be resentful, touchy, subjective, <put your random negative adjective here>. Serious gaming company shouldn't be.

[Ovi]

I dont agree here

Players can be resentful, touchy, subjective, <put your random negative adjective here>. Serious gaming company shouldn't be.

Not sure how that makes what Puppet said wrong?

[Cromcruaich]

If you want to look at a system where comunication has totally broken down then check out the starwars galaxies forums.

Once you read through any of those posts you will realise that us as DAOC players dont really get it that bad.

OK there is lag on the servers which is quite bad but goa do try and get it fixed in a timly manner. our servers are barly ever down and when they are down its for a damn good reason.

You want to read some of the posts on the swg forums they would make you pray and worship the feet of goa. If anything its a prime example of why keeping your comunity informed is important but telling them everying isnt probbly wise. The swg comunity got totally shafted worse than the prydwen crash. Think about it if mythic anounced a patch that would mean you had to reroll you char from lvl 1 and couldnt be say a mana chanter, or that those galladoria or artifact items you are currently wearing next patch wouldnt work and you would have to remove. Or unique items that you have farmed mobs for and are selling on your cms suddenly got removed because noone could wear them any more.

And to top it off that the entire game got changed the servers are laggy and are down 2 days out of 7 for at least 5 hours.

And you pay more for the service.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/

Yes goa have to work a bit more on comunication to the comunity but how much comunication do you want ?

do you want the website updated constantly with stuff like

Btw Requiel has just left the office to get a sandwhich and will be back in 5 minutes with a mars bar and a coke for Enviros.

Or do you want relevant information like

Servers will be taken down on monday for xxxx reason,

or do you want a counter up in the top corner saying "right now messages currently in the queue"

there is only so much information a company can divulge to the players and tbh the comunity has proven in the passed that when given too much information they just threw it back in the companys face.

now do you think XML was fixed because you lot complained to mythic over it or do you think XML was fixed because the GM's had to change what they were doing to bring the XML back up ? IE not doing character restorations.

anywho ill stop posting it seems we have two parties those that think goa do a crap job and those that think they do an alright job. Either way is the cost worth it for the original poster ?

Why so aggressive in tone? Whats with the 'you lot' bit? Is this how goa think as well?

Also outlining how terrible one mmog is doesnt change a thing about problems with this mmog. As ovi said, 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Regarding what we want to see as news, again your being a bit provocative with you response. I think we would like accurate, frequent and regular updates on the issues we are experiencing. For example there is no mention on the news page of the restoration process and its progress atall. That said, the news regarding zone problems has been updated pretty well.

[Cromcruaich]

Silly again, just because you think Im not in the position to judge, this again is based on nothing but very limited information and pulled out of context. Same could be said towards you 'You are not an insider and missing alot of facts, you're not in a position to judge'.

and Im rather sure them being in the same guild also helped the cascade-effect.

In the end I find the discussion very futile, because the majority of you guys is missing some vital information, which is still, from my PoV, as being given to me as confidential.

Keep guessing and stirring the kettle, because to be fair, that's what I think this thread is all about. Basing opinions on very inconclusive and wrong information, which now, to some of you, are 'given facts'.

I thought we were having a discussion on a discussion forum. It's you thats stirring thing by making posts like this.

It's a shame that once again an argumentative approach was taken to Sharkith's post.

And please keep the guild out of it. Actions by E&E's are taken by individuals concerned and have nothing to do with the guild.

[Cromcruaich]

Anyway nothing more to say on this thread, thanks to the E&E for responses.

[Gahn]

First of all, two wrongs doesnt make one right. Even if some has a feeling GOA isnt holding part of its 'bargain', it does not give you the right to break your promise just because you see fit to do so. So yes, I blame those individuals.

From my 'internal' experience, without saying too much, I didnt see a clear indication either of them did something constructively to improve the situation rather then mindless bashing, ranting and just stirring up the discussion. Not exactly the best way to improve the problem and working on a way to improve it.



Silly again, just because you think Im not in the position to judge, this again is based on nothing but very limited information and pulled out of context. Same could be said towards you 'You are not an insider and missing alot of facts, you're not in a position to judge'.

We're splitting hairs here, in the end, breaking one side of the pact by giving out information which was not 'for your ears' isnt gonna resolve anything, except giving the 'outsiders' some new fuel, and giving the 'insiders' a now valid reason to think twice about saying what to the E&E's. Im sure thats all very constructive to really solve the issue. NOT



Im not in the position to take wild guesses on why they think their action(s) are justified. I got my ideas about it, and Im rather sure them being in the same guild also helped the cascade-effect.

In the end I find the discussion very futile, because the majority of you guys is missing some vital information, which is still, from my PoV, as being given to me as confidential.

Keep guessing and stirring the kettle, because to be fair, that's what I think this thread is all about. Basing opinions on very inconclusive and wrong information, which now, to some of you, are 'given facts'.

If u have some kind of trust relathionship with another subject, mainly is a 2 way relationship; i guess the guys got nuff of covering what was done wrong by Goa in front of Community (since they were the 2 most active in forums trying to explain wtf was going on after item loss and various restart of servers and poisonspike "issues") and taking the shit about it.
In my own opinion, let aside the implicit NDA of E&E's position and such, it's too easy to let voluntueers get all the crap from the community when u (Goa and i'm not even dragging GMs in this) clearly is getting the wrong steps to maintain your community and dealing with its expectations.
In the end, since it seems that AFTER all the whining and moaning, something is moving finally, i would love to see from Goa a drastic change of direction in the way they dealing us as customers both in communication way, time of response and, mainly, trust of communication.
Would be too easy now to say, i said it that clustering before all issues were resolved would have gotten us to a worse situation. Hope next time they gonna be more careful of what community thinks is good for itself, and even then that they get the more conservative way tbh.