Maybe we should send a message to GOA?

Cryn · Post by **Cryn** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:43 am

Our relationship is in our control. You say whatever we do they won't take notice, but I feel that if a significant number of people take a month out, GOA will very quickly take notice.

From their point of view, they must be hypersensitive to people cancelling subs. Not just because it is a month's lost revenue, but also because they know that people may find some other passtime and not come back to DAoC.

I'll probably not cancel my subs, and it's looking like others won't either, but I don't think we should ditch this idea entirely. It is worth keeping it in mind as we go forward, because maybe there will come a point when we want to say to GOA "we're not gonna roll over this time".

Satyn · Post by **Satyn** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:53 am

gah ... the more I think about it the more I think you're right. But there's NO way there will be enough ppl to do so. And thats what I ment with: goa wont take notice of it.
Even if I wanted to, thand wouldnt even let me cos he pays for my account

So I wont be able to help out i'm affraid.

Sehanine · Post by **Sehanine** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:08 pm

Well if my NS have lost any items that i cant get back as an Item, then ill quit hib/pryd for good... i simply cba to get a new item that prolly tons of other ppl also are after. The prices will proberly go sky high on these items ppl are missing, and the "compensation" of these items sux bigtime.. probely wont even get money enough to buy the item anew.
So ill go alb/excal for good if i lost something i cant get returned.
And its very hard to remember all the items you have in your vault, HV, CM so will most likely lose alot on this as ppl cant remember what was in the specific slots. That makes me wonder.... how the f**k can mythic/goa exspect ppl to remember what they have in every slot in their inv/vault/hv/cm ..? This service is the worse ive ever seen and heard of, and this compensation.. is not compensation.. Compensation is when u get back what you have lost!!

Ovi · Post by **Ovi** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:16 pm

Cryn wrote:I think you have rose-tinted specs on, Ovi.

Firstly, GOA will have lost almost no money on this. Considering that if you messed up your business in most industries, you would interrupt your turnover, GOA have gotten away very lightly. Prydwen is a fraction of their turnover and the free period is only a portion of the subs for one month.

Also, you 10 minute estimate for the effect on in game time is unlikely, isn't it? I mean ... it probably takes about that long just to check the possessions of one character (do we need to check vaults too?). Even if you have NO missing possessions, that makes it a good couple of hours for people with mature accounts and a buff bot.

If you did have items missing you gotta make a report, but that's not where the lost time comes from. As Puppet said, a character with missing items is not necessarily gonna be playable, so you may need to wait until the items are replaced before you can get the character RVRing. Their response time will depend on how many reports they get, but let's consider ... RightNow is notorious for poor response times and their workload is gonna be much increased at the moment. Doesn't look favourable.

But sure, let's wait and see how it goes. It won't really matter, because on Monday all the people who insist on putting positive spin on everything GOA does will still do so and all the people like me who insist on complaining will still complain. And through it all, GOA will serenely ignore us, not really caring what we think about the situation.

No rose coloured specs, just a bit of realism.

Nice to see you putting words in my mouth "Also, you 10 minute estimate for the effect on in game time is unlikely". we wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong idea about what I actually said would we :rolleyes:

I won't even try to argue the details you posted, since you obviously have your Shit-coloured specs on and are clearly not prepared to listen to any alternative view points.

Nored · Post by **Nored** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:20 pm

There has been a bug ... Noone can help that, and it seemed to work like a virus, spreading over many, very many items, that had to be deleted, by Mythic, and then the job for GOA was to restore those items as quick as possible with leaving as little items as possible to be lost. 66.000 items, as Requiel spoke of, will take a while, and therefor, we get a week free subs.
This afcourse is nothing special, and it would be very bad if there would be no free subs given to us, but we got something extra:

Underpopulated bonuses for about 2 weeks. Just the Hookpoint reduce bonus is no use, but hè, I'm not gonna repeat that

The only thing that you can really send to GOA is about the items that are still lost, not the artifacts, as they'll be restored at level 10, no matter the level they were (Very good GOA, well done) nor quest items, as the can be restored too ...
The problem are the items that fitted in templated, which have been lost, and are very hard to get. This might mean a new template, which is no fun to do.

But for the rest, I see no reason to blame GOA, just ...

Give Prydwen!

Elrandhir · Post by **Elrandhir** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:53 pm

Nored wrote:
The problem are the items that fitted in templated, which have been lost, and are very hard to get. This might mean a new template, which is no fun to do.

But for the rest, I see no reason to blame GOA, just ...

Give Prydwen!

As I have said, loosing Items for a Temp and not getting it back, well then I would leave, and that is because it would take to much time getting them back, and I would never spend time trying to get an item back that I probably already have spent lots of time trying to get.

But as said, lets wait until monday and see.

Cryn · Post by **Cryn** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:34 pm

Ovi wrote:No rose coloured specs, just a bit of realism.

Nice to see you putting words in my mouth "Also, you 10 minute estimate for the effect on in game time is unlikely". we wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong idea about what I actually said would we :rolleyes:

I won't even try to argue the details you posted, since you obviously have your Shit-coloured specs on and are clearly not prepared to listen to any alternative view points.

I'll ask you once again - would it be possible for you to stop childishly belabouring this? I know you didn't like it when I told you off for being foolish on the quoting, but at the moment you're just coming off as a kid.

I asked you not to do that silly thing with the quote tags. Simple as that. I'm sure that once you get over your pouting, you'll stop trying to pretend you don't get it.

Ovi · Post by **Ovi** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:45 pm

Cryn wrote:I'll ask you once again - would it be possible for you to stop childishly belabouring this? I know you didn't like it when I told you off for being foolish on the quoting, but at the moment you're just coming off as a kid.

I asked you not to do that silly thing with the quote tags. Simple as that. I'm sure that once you get over your pouting, you'll stop trying to pretend you don't get it.

Hmmm, since the point is only getting "childishly belaboured" by the fact that we BOTH keep replying to each other I would also ask that you stop "childishly belabouring" the point too

Seriously Cryn, you really need to calm down a bit. Every time you make a personal dig at me I will reply, afterall it is human nature to get defensive. I have tried to keep my replies either unpersonal (is that the right word?) or light hearted, if that comes across as being a kid then so be it.

I have even avoided replying to most of your discussion points as I know anything I say will get a response from you, purely on the principle of trying to put me down.

Post by **Xest** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:57 pm

It was also Mythic that were not prepared to work last weekend on the problems.

Be glad Mythic helped at all, fact is Mythic will have had to pull resources away from development/support of their own service to once again help deal with GOA's incompetence.

This isn't the first time GOA have had database corruption, the other most prominent was the level 100 troll player on Camlann. I remember also the euro servers having problems where people would log in and appear as other people's characters - I don't recall any of this happening on the US servers. GOA should've been aware that their setup was prone for whatever reason to database corruption and had procedures in place to deal with the problem. More importantly, they should have regular full backups in place so that they can return to a working state without ANY loss of items, but perhaps a slight rollback in far less time than 10 days or whatever it's taken them.

Requiel · Post by **Requiel** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:18 pm

Xest wrote:Be glad Mythic helped at all, fact is Mythic will have had to pull resources away from development/support of their own service to once again help deal with GOA's incompetence.

This isn't the first time GOA have had database corruption, the other most prominent was the level 100 troll player on Camlann. I remember also the euro servers having problems where people would log in and appear as other people's characters - I don't recall any of this happening on the US servers. GOA should've been aware that their setup was prone for whatever reason to database corruption and had procedures in place to deal with the problem. More importantly, they should have regular full backups in place so that they can return to a working state without ANY loss of items, but perhaps a slight rollback in far less time than 10 days or whatever it's taken them.

Once again Xest you are commenting on issues that you know nothing whatsoever about and passing off uninformed speculation as fact. None of the issues you described are a result of any kind of database corruption. There were backup procedures in place but for reasons I really can't go into here, those backups were also corrupted. As Mythic are the developers and thus are the only people who can deal with code problems they had to be involved heavily in the fix. For the record, Mythic have acknowledged that there was no fault with our backup system or the database management. How you come by your conclusion that this was caused by our incompetance I really don't know. Unless, as I suspect you are merely guessing and jumping to assumptions that benefit your anti-Goa bias.

We could have made a small rollback on Wednesday evening and not suffered any downtime but without finding and fixing the initial cause we would have basically been hoping that whatever caused the problem in the first place had gone away by itself. I don't know if you think that's a good idea but we certainly didn't. As it happened, when the scale of the issue became apparent, our decision was vindicated fully.