Buffing - a thought / fix / change for the better

[Dorin]

yea potions with buffshear ingame


no thanks :-) just put it on 3k range, if you move further buffs gray out and you lose effect of theirs


ofc this wouldnt solve the DI_BUFFS_SCOUTm8 in tower problem, but shit happens.

[Adianna]

What I would change:

1) No more Concentration
2) No more Single Target Buffs
3) Split up Spec Buffs among Buffing classes (Spec Str/Con Druid, Spec Haste/Int Warden, Spec Dex/Qui Bard etc.)
4) All Buffs have target "Group"
5) All Buffs have 20 minutes duration and fade if the character or the buffer leave the group
6) Buffing Potions have 10-20 charges
7) Buffing Potions have 2/3 value of Cast Buffs at 20 minutes duration
You can combine 2-3 Buffing Potions so that you only have to use 3-4 at a time.

[Cernos]

Easily solved:

1) Buffs on range

2) Split the spec buffs between at least three different classes. In Hib that could be Druid for str/con, Bard for Dex, Warden for Haste, Enchanter for Brain).

Then buffs aren't concentrated in any one buffing class that can sit around at border keeps or lord rooms.

Problem solved.

[Kesxex]

putting spec buffs on potions means you have to give the main buffers in each realm some kind of compensation to being made partially obsolete

By having buffbots main buffers are already obsolete. That is why buff shears were brought in.
Range on buffs won't do anything but concentrating RvR around a few points where otherwise there are roaming options.

The fairest option are buff potions (with all the necessary changes needed then to potions) and timed buffs.

Timed buffs still provide value for money (in the truest sense for the buffbot account) but forces people using them to come back time after time. This hassle will provide a disincentive towards buffbots.
But it won't outright kill the usage of a buffbot.
It actually also enhances the value of a main buffer - though just not for the classes that really need them to play on an even field - aka stealthers.

Timed buffs then just throw up the problem for the main buffers when and how to re-apply them. Cause I don't want to make 20 (or more without a limit) spells while group mates constantly run around. This would stop buffers being played then.

[Cuchuluhain]

Take away spec buffs from druids etc, you remove effectively 1/3 of their possible abilities.

How would chanters like it if they were sudden bereft of mana spec? Or Champions couldnt shield spec, or wardens couldnt have ANY weapon specs, or bards lost all regrowth?

Youd be effectively crippling the character and limiting what it can do.


That wouldnt be fair on those that DO play druids as their mains/regulars.


something has to be done against buffbots, to stop the have and have nots, to encourange new players into the game without the 'oh you`ll need 2 accounts to compete'



Id be happy to see all chars lose buff lines altogether, then get rising enhancements the same way vamps/valks get. Then instead, put in other chants/effects in their place

Example
Magic absorbtion
Melee resists
groupwide end reduction
Spec armour buff
weapon swing speed
lines of debuffs/hinders
Focus buffs / less chance to beinterrupted
Power use 'filters' / offensive or healing
Enhanced healing effects

[Xest]

Right now, buffbots are prevalent, so much so theyre making new servers in the US to try to counter them due to customer pressure.

Common misconception, hardly any customers wanted it, only a few ex-customers wanted it now by Mythic's own admittance.

It got me thinking, the realms are unbalanced in their primary buffers and it makes playing a primary buffer unfun. A single druid in a group cant spec -everyone- to capacity, even with the 25% conc bonus, and on the 'new' servers, toa bonus wont be there thanks to no MLS.

How exactly are the realms unbalanced in their primary buffers? Mid usually has a shammy and 3 healers which is 1 spec and 3 base buffers, Hib usually has a nurture druid, nature druid, warden and bard which is 1 spec and 3 base buffers and Albion has 2 enhance clerics and if they're lucky a friar, so 2 spec buffers and 1 base buffer. Albion is the only odd one out really but it's not like the extra specs help because you have a hell of a lot less base buffs to go around.

So it got me thinking, how could we improve buffing, without a) driving people away b) annoying bot owners c) killing off stealthers and d) killing off real buffers

Only fair solution is make buffs available to non-bot owners via potions or an NPC or something, that way bot owners can still keep their bots so they don't have to bother with the pots/NPCs whereas non-bot users still have a viable option to compete.

Easily solved:

1) Buffs on range

Wrong - not a balanced solution, it still leaves classes that work fine without buffs, i.e. vamps, warlocks and to a lesser extent, hunters, rangers, heretics and other self buffs at a massive an unbalanced advantage.

The only fair and balanced way to go in the current state of the game is to make sure EVERYONE can get buffs, otherwise you make the divide between the well formed gank groups and the pick up groups a thousand times worse, you make the gap between bot-independant classes and more classic or non-self buffing classes horribly noticeable. What's more, the buffs that are available to everyone need to be made available to everyone permanently, timered is useless (unless rebuffable in the field - i.e. potion buffs), ranged is useless - as I say it opens the potential for one player to be at an unbuffed disadvantage vs. a class or group that doesn't have that worry.

[Xest]

Take away spec buffs from druids etc, you remove effectively 1/3 of their possible abilities.

How would chanters like it if they were sudden bereft of mana spec? Or Champions couldnt shield spec, or wardens couldnt have ANY weapon specs, or bards lost all regrowth?

Youd be effectively crippling the character and limiting what it can do.


That wouldnt be fair on those that DO play druids as their mains/regulars.


something has to be done against buffbots, to stop the have and have nots, to encourange new players into the game without the 'oh you`ll need 2 accounts to compete'



Id be happy to see all chars lose buff lines altogether, then get rising enhancements the same way vamps/valks get. Then instead, put in other chants/effects in their place

Example
Magic absorbtion
Melee resists
groupwide end reduction
Spec armour buff
weapon swing speed
lines of debuffs/hinders
Focus buffs / less chance to beinterrupted
Power use 'filters' / offensive or healing
Enhanced healing effects

Why wouldn't it be fair? How often do you use those buff spells other than before your group leaves the keep? With buff sheers then sure you use them a little more but not a lot - how would a buffers life really be that much different if they didn't have to buff everyone before they set off? I think if the buffing load was spread between more classes most buffers would see it as a godsend, it'd also mean out to battle faster and not waiting on one single person if the group was awake.

The only real disadvantage would be if your group got sheered and you wanted to rebuff mid fight but hey, you can return the favour and sheer them and at least it'd mean you're not dependant on your primary buffer being alive to get at least some buffs back. Besides if they brought in potioned buffs it wouldn't matter anyway people could buff themselves if they die or get sheered

All in all I think it'd bring far more to the game than it'd lose.

[Cernos]

Take away spec buffs from druids etc, you remove effectively 1/3 of their possible abilities. How would chanters like it if they were sudden bereft of mana spec?

Seen many enchantment spec enchanters about since ... well beta really? Enchanters have only ever had 2/3 viable spec lines. But if they put the acuity buff in enchanter enchantment spec line .....

That wouldnt be fair on those that DO play druids as their mains/regulars.

But most people that actively play a druid would rather be doing anything OTHER than buffing. Buffing is tedious. If you ask most active druids if they'd prefer to:

A) spend their time buffing before the group sets off and after every wipe and then reapplying buffs in the field every time someone dies, is sheered or timers expire.

or

B) spend their time healing, rooting, dot'ing, pet'ing, curing and generally having fun.

I think most would choose option B)

something has to be done against buffbots, to stop the have and have nots, to encourange new players into the game without the 'oh you`ll need 2 accounts to compete'

Agreed, but Mythic will never remove buffs completely (wish they would develop a different system but they won't). Which is why an alternative would be to spread the spec buffs across mutliple classes so you can't just have a buffbot on a 2nd account which covers all major buffs. If you split it across two classes some people WILL run three accounts to get all buffs, but spread it across three or four classes and they won't.

[Cuchuluhain]

I use those buffs all the time, for groups, for myself, for fill ins.

For RVR, the 'buffbot' robs me of my role as everyone 'has' to have red con buffs to compete and a redcon buffer adds nothing to the group and can left out of the group and still keep the buffs.

In PVE, those buffs I can put out are quite often enough, and I bring those enhancements AND bloody good healing to the group so I can stay within it.

Give everyone potions with multiple buffs on it, and remove spec buffs.

Great, so the Druid for example can either be a pure healer or have a big pet or a mix, they no longer have that choice of options

A cleric then can smite or heal... fun

A healer can well.. the mids would be most hurt as they have TWO classes for their spec buffs, shaman and healers would be affected.

Nice.

I dont object to having buffs removed, but you HAVE to give something back to compensate for the loss. Hell Id love my buffs to be a group effect, I join the group, I radiate an aura boosting your str/con by 50, dex/qui by 50, int/actuity by 30 and made you swing your weapons 10% faster. If someone had a better set of buffs, theyd over write mine, that would be specced for and make things viable again.

Hell give ALL the classes an aura like what theyre doing with guild banners and remove straight buffs, make them only apply to groups and yorue golden, Wont kill buffbots for soloer/stealhers, but if you want the best buffs in group youre going to compromise on CC/healing to keep that char along or settle for lesser buffs but better healing. THAT would work nicely.

Lets see what classes we could tweak, lets start with Hib

Bard - aura of speed - same as base dex, and depending on spec faster cast speed/weapon swing speed. (reg)
Warden - aura of resilience - base con - dependant on their spec an enhancement to melee resists (reg)
Druid - aura of Hibernia - Spec Buffs as per their nurture line, boosts, Str/con/qui/dex/int by the level defined by their nurture spec, also enhances healing effect by similar amounts depending on regrowth spec (nurt)
Enchanter - aura of the mage - increases resistance to fire damage (light)
Eldritch - aura of the veil - increase to cold damage (void)
Mentalist - aura of effeciency - all casting costs less power (ment spec?)
Valewalker - aura of the trees - all melee attacks have a small dps damage add (all specs)
Animist - arborial aura - all casts have a greater chance of critting (all specs)
Ranger - striking aura - arrow shots do less damage to the target/less chance of popping bt (bow spec)
nightshade - aura of slyness - crowd control has less effect on the group (stealth spec)
Vampiir - undead aura - all healing has a greater effect (sm spec)
bainshee - wailing aura - all spells have a chance of firing as an aoe on the target (wail spec) - both damage and heals, radius based on spec
Hero - Heroic aura - improved absorbtion for the group (shield spec)
Champion - aura of the champion - adds small boost to weapon spec for the group (valor)

This would allow you to play with different group setups that wouldnt be considered fotm, and could be used to develop synergies and would improve the groupability of a lot of classes. Again those are rough/vague suggestions and outlines and could/would have to be refined and tweaked.

But wouldnt it be nice to see more classes viable out there, to improve group surviability and prolong a fight so that it wasnt all over in 20 seconds?

[Lieva]

no twinking

someone got the answer in the 2nd post
buff pots

Would give more alchemists work as well