the single-greatest RvR-based MMORPGs in the industry

[Heta]

honour system is crap tho due to beeing forced to play alot to maintain the rank, think daoc system is much better where you can build up you char over time even tho not playing that much

[Shi]

I think everybody is bit right and wrong bout WoW here
I played for long on US, now Eu and I need say it is quite different so far.
Blizzard overall suffered form server issues but those were fixed at some point.
Thing that puzzles me is that I had less lag in IF on most populated US server (warsong) than I got in Ogrimmar on EU Skullcrusher.
Dunno whats the deal but lag is much worse on Eu.
The CS seems also better on US, but I think that is ressources problem.
Blizzard launched pretty unprepaired in EU for such huge sales, my guess as you can still see jobs offers on their UE pages.
So that indeed can summ up for a bad experience with their service, but can be also bad luck as for a given server. Really.
Anyhow.
Other thing is funny how here WoW gets 'punished' for its casual/fun approach.(let's put here the f'ked up honor system aside for a wee).
Most complains bout depth come from power lvlers who reached lvl 60 so fast they got bored from farming items on instance runs.
And ya, I find it funny as many past mmorpgs (including DAOC) were known for the grind you had to put on ur side to reach the end game lvl.
And imo WoW succeeded here to deliver a game where you don’t really grind in old sense.
Exp is pretty fast, fights have quasi no downtime. No crap inteerupt system.
Then ok, many ppl complain the end game consists of repetive farming of instances.
I did find somehow fun in playing alts thus I didn’t reach that stage yet.
I can imagine that tho.
Fact is blizzard came a bit unprepaired for it, but as was said b4, the BGS are sposed to deliver some more 'occupation' for lvl 60s
WoW is still for me a far better game than DAOC, although for sure DAOC PvP concept of realm with frontiers zones is by far the best concept outthere.
At least the best concept in ensuring some good harmony in between the PvP and PvE content withing a game.
Guess for WoW it can differ per server type and server itself.
It can be decent but can also be very very bad.

[Geralt]

Someone
has
sold
his
soul.

May the god has mercy for him.

[Xest]

[quote="Ovi"]I think it is a little too early to judge WoW PvP, as the PvP side is still a little "unfinished". When the next patch goes live and battlegrounds are active it would be a fairer comparison, and also the game still needs time for play styles to evolve.

I wasn't in DAoC at the start, only joining when SI came out, but from the way people talk of what PvP was like before RAs etc I think WoW isn't a huge step different.

I do think WoW is a little "dumbed down", and to be fair that probably suits me a little more. Fights take longer, there is more use for the whole range of character abilities (Except when being jumped by Rogues obviously) and so far all classes have their uses.

I am interested what makes DAoC PvP more engaging than WoW? Most of the Main PvP in DAoC is a fg running around trying to find another fg to fight, no reason you can't do the same in WoW.

Then we have Keeps, towers etc, but surely BGs will provide the lower level NPC type PvP events, and there is already the ability to raid the capital cities which would be the equivalent to a Relic Raid.

Is it not partly a case of fond memories of your first love? (To use a cheesy cliche ]
Reason I prefer DAoC PvP, is, although it has things like face, assist and stick it requires more skill. For example, as a caster in DAoC as much as people whine about the interrupt system there's far more fun in dealing with it and kiting away from tanks so you can get those casts off than there is just standing as a caster in WoW spamming away at the nuke button not having to worry too much about interrupts. The other major factor being the vast amount of classes in DAoC, the vast amount of group make ups, the differences between realms which again is a blessing and a curse to the game but I prefer the variation over the staleness of WoW's horribly generic combat, class and abilities system.

The final thing I hated about WoW is no matter what people say, WoW levelling is much, much slower than DAoCs after Catacombs and I find DAoC's levelling grind bad enough, WoW's was just unbarable to me hence why I quit - what didn't help was that WoW's levelling system was a direct copy off of DAoC's for the most part, whilst there were more quests the quests were still uninteresting and repetitive, requiring a lot of running round which again was somewhat painful (I'm not saying DAoC's quests are any better, they're not, but that's the point here - WoW is supposed to be better but is in fact the same boring old story).

WoW just seemed to copy too much from other MMOGs without learning anything from their mistakes, so essentially it just felt like the same old stuff but without the content that other MMOGs have built up over the years to boot. To break into the MMOG market now I think you have to be very innovative and copying other MMOG ideas wont work purely because other MMOGs already have the features AND have years of content built up on top - something a new MMOG will struggle to produce.

[HappyG]

I think this thread went the wrong way already, but...

honour system is crap tho due to beeing forced to play alot to maintain the rank, think daoc system is much better where you can build up you char over time even tho not playing that much

I have many bad things to say about honor system, but "not being friendly to casual players" just isnt one of them. Im Rank 7 with about 15.000 CP per week since Honor came in, guy from the same realm is Rank 9 with about 80.000 CP each week. Bonuses you get when playing more are not proportional to time invested in WoW.

[HappyG]

For example, as a caster in DAoC as much as people whine about the interrupt system there's far more fun in dealing with it and kiting away from tanks so you can get those casts off than there is just standing as a caster in WoW spamming away at the nuke button not having to worry too much about interrupts.

Playing a Mage myself, I'm never standing on the same spot in PvP for more than 3 seconds. Yeah I have one completly uninterruptable DD and one I have 65% chance not to be interrupted on a hit, but fact is almost every class in WoW has some kind of stun, mezz, disarm, silence, counterspell, whatever spell/proc to interrupt your cast. You still can get a spell through when you are engaged in melee combat, but its far from uninterruptable casting.

and copying other MMOG ideas wont work purely because other MMOGs already have the features AND have years of content built up on top

Well, actualy it does work, they have like 1.5 Million subscribers which is like 3 times more than DAoC ever had. Yes DAoC has built up shitloads of content during the years, but it also got shitloads of RR10s, and new people are just not willing to be farmed for a year, before they will be able to enjoy the game with proper rank and equipment. I'm sure with new graphic engine, empty new servers and good media campaign DAoC would stole huge part of WoW customers, and that is just what might happen with the new Warhammer.

[Lairiodd]

Mark Jacobs posted here

Folks,

First, I want to thank everyone for their kind words regarding the announcement of our first Warhammer game. Everyone at Mythic is quite excited about the possibilities that this partnership with the fine folks at Games Workshop with bring about to both companies. Secondly, as to the game that we have begun work on, it will be a game that is focused on the RvR aspects of Warhammer. We will reveal more details over the coming months but for now, I think the best way to describe the game I have envisioned is the simple phrase "This time it's WAAAGH!" Third, I apologize in advance for what will be infrequent appearances here and other Warhammer-related sites. It's not that I don't love to chat (as the guys at GW can tell you, getting me to shut up is more of a problem), but I have a game design to work on after all.

To answer some brief questions that have popped up here and on other forums:

1) This is not a continuation of the Warhammer Online project. Mythic is working closely with GW to create a new vision for a Warhammer online game.

2) The development time-line for the game is a tad over 2 years but given our experience and existing code-base (Dark Age of Camelot, Imperator and others), we believe we can meet that schedule.

3) We want to pull in as much material from the Warhammer material as we can to make this a great game. I don't care where it comes from, if it's Warhammer (Fantasy Battles, RPG, Warmaster) and it also can be part of a great game, I want to try to fit it in this game. This game will not be DAoC2 with the name of Warhammer attached.

4) RvR does not equal PvP. DAoC is not a PvP game and neither will be this game. We want people to be able to roleplay and we also want them to be able to play the game without worrying about getting ganked from the moment they enter the game by someone more powerful than them.

5) The building and maintaining of community is quite important to Mythic whether it is in the game or out of it. The reason we don't host our own forums is that we either do it well (which means full-time admins, added costs) or we would rather not do it at all. We will consider setting up our own forums for this game but most likely, they will be private to keep the noise level down. Now, if we make them private, we will of course invite all the people who have been participating in forums like these to join us. We will also have ultra-private forums for beta-testers as we do for DAoC and Imperator.

6) As to the question of religion in Warhammer, we expect it will play a role. Religion doesn't in Imperator because Imperator is meant to be a pure sci-fi game. We'd be foolish to do the same here.

7) As a friend of mine at GW says in describing what we want to do with this game, Warhammer will not be happy-clappy land, we'll leave dancing orcs, prancing elves to other guys.

I have a long-standing relationship with a number of the people at GW, and I hold them, and the IP, in the highest regard. Nothing that we are doing is in any way a sign of disrespect for what has gone before. It's a new day, a new vision but the old world.

Best,

Mark Jacobs
President/CEO
Mythic Entertainment

P.S. It's going to be a lot of fun...

So, it will be an RVR game. This puts it in direct competition with daoc which doesn't seem very smart for them.

[Cryn]

I don't think it will be in competition with DAoC. If someone plays DAoC or Warhammer, the funds still go to Mythic. More importantly, all those people who love RvR but are played out on DAoC will come to Warhammer. Add in the people who will come because it's new and those who will come because it's Warhammer, and there should be a pretty big player base at launch.

I like what he says in number (3). Maybe my dream of leading a crack mercenary company to hunt down Xest's untrained rabble isn't so far fetched.

[HappyG]

we'll leave dancing orcs, prancing elves to other guys

lol

So, it will be an RVR game. This puts it in direct competition with daoc which doesn't seem very smart for them.

In 2007 DAoC will be 5 years old, will most likely have less subscribers than today, and MMORPG market will be bigger than today. Why would they support community od 100.000 if they can aim for a million?

[Ankh Morpork]

In 2007 DAoC will be 5 years old, will most likely have less subscribers than today, and MMORPG market will be bigger than today. Why would they support community od 100.000 if they can aim for a million?

I kind of agree on this one, and I also think the warhammer world is like 100 times better than daoc anyway so ofc we should ditch DAoC for warhammer as long as they can offer us the same fun

BUT the question we all ask ourself is - when will polish trucker online be avaible?

/Ankh