The Plus and Minus points of clustering.

General 'Hibernian' forum for the entire cluster
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Ankh Morpork

Post by Ankh Morpork »

pikeh wrote:its dead already, and a fresh influx of alb / mid duo's or stealther zergs will be thinking exactly the same thing. "Ok, so occasus bridge or edda island may be busy, lets go and hunt some in a less crowded area". fun. :bandit:
Not really, ive done quite well lately myself :) sure, you wont get 10 billions of Rp in 20 mins from solo fighting..but the soloing is still there, just takes abit more timing..

/Ankh

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Elrandhir
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Post by Elrandhir »

Ankh Morpork wrote:...unless you just wait for those X hours :) Tbh, thats a pretty fair deal imo. But then its not a matter of not being able to log on with your mid/alb chars...its just a matter of you being patient :P

/Ankh
Think the time set is rather fair also ;D need to relax bit if moodswings is that changable otherwise =P

Well can´t deside how anyone else likes it, just can´t se reason to have to change more often ^^
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Ankh Morpork

Post by Ankh Morpork »

[quote="Elrandhir"]Think the time set is rather fair also ]

That's my point kind of :P

/Ankh

Briannon
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Post by Briannon »

Ankh Morpork wrote:...unless you just wait for those X hours :) Tbh, thats a pretty fair deal imo. But then its not a matter of not being able to log on with your mid/alb chars...its just a matter of you not being able to wait for abit :P

/Ankh

That all depends on the time they set.

On the US servers it was an 8 hours limit. So yeah, it would stop you dead in your tracks because 8 hours is a very long time to wait before you could log alts on - in most cases it would end the game session for the night. If GOA set it at 1 hour then that's perhaps more manageable, but just suppose you plan to do a ML raid on Hib, but you decide to level a few albs alts whilst w8ing for the raid to start. You'd have to ensure that you finish your levelling session X hours before the ML raid starts so you could log in with your hibs. I know most people would say "so what, just play your hibbies instead" but it is the restriction of choice that bothers me.
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Elrandhir
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Post by Elrandhir »

Briannon wrote:That all depends on the time they set.

On the US servers it was an 8 hours limit. So yeah, it would stop you dead in your tracks because 8 hours is a very long time to wait before you could log alts on - in most cases it would end the game session for the night. If GOA set it at 1 hour then that's perhaps more manageable, but just suppose you plan to do a ML raid on Hib, but you decide to level a few albs alts whilst w8ing for the raid to start. You'd have to ensure that you finish your levelling session X hours before the ML raid starts so you could log in with your hibs. I know most people would say "so what, just play your hibbies instead" but it is the restriction of choice that bothers me.
Gah just don´t level those alts then, have to be able to take a small break there :P
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Ankh Morpork

Post by Ankh Morpork »

Oh well Briann, I do get your point but the problem is for me to agree (since I only play 1 server myself :P)

/Ankh

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Sharkith
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Post by Sharkith »

Dunno I have read this thread and others like it with interest. I guess what you have is a merger/takeover kind of language from those in the community but the typical bureaucractic language of those managing the games. The term clustering is a bit too innocuous and smells of bureaucracy and people should be right to be suspicious since the impact it has is not in what is described.

Give me a sec (I have time here with my coffee). Clustering means that you put together two communities with vastly different ways of communicating with each other in certain aspects of the game. I am concerned from what Quinlan has said here because it might also mean that an RvR clustering would result in people getting access to the very divisive area of ToA which we all know is the most difficult and problematic part of the game.

What is more clustering means labelling - you get a label that tells people which server you originate from. A bit like having black skin or a tradition of wearing clothes that mark you as different. That is potentially divisive and I am not sure I want to see that.

Perhaps it can happen in RvR where the rules of communication are not that set but in exp hunting and other aspects the smaller community will feel the impact the most and also most negatively because the gaming space will shrink. We are being warned that having RvR clustered might lead to people moving accross to the Prdywen side of things to compete for scarce time and resources and that is potentially very damaging because we do have a community that works fairly well to try and help each other out. Even the exceptions have proven that the groups functions pretty well. Chuck someone into that group or environment with a label telling everyone they are different and you are likely to get polarisation of behaviour.

Not only this but the more aggressive will become the norm. It is simply a fact that the greater the population the less trust you get. People have to find ways to manage a lack of trust. I for one do not relish watching the trust we have being undermined because of an increase in population. I am worried about this more than anything else.

The term 'clustering' masks more than it reveals try to think carefully beyond one particular aspect (RvR etc.) and think more about what makes the game meaningful for us. I am with Kallima's sensitivity on this and I think that is where the real problems will emerge.

Does anyone have empricial examples of clashes of culture and problems? Why was there a 'de-clustering' in some cases? What motivated that to happen? I would like to know more about the experience across the pond.

As for the removal of choice - well I can see Briannon's point - why can't we tolerate that this is important to him and others who like to enjoy the fullest range of the game as possible? He pays his dues and I am sorry that he will be dictated to by the rather innocuously sounding phrase 'server clustering'....

please just be careful - anything that has to label people is usually not a good thing - differences that promote differences can be divisive and unsavoury.

Sharkith

p.s. sorry for the essay but it was mug of coffee after all... :kiss:

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Post by Briannon »

Ankh Morpork wrote:Oh well Briann, I do get your point but the problem is for me to agree (since I only play 1 server myself :P)

/Ankh

I guess my worry is that people who only play one server will view the vote from that perspective and not be aware of the potential ramifications for people who play both. Please don't take that as a criticism because it's not meant to be one, and it is why I have posted so much stuff from the perspective of a multi-server player. All I ask is that when people vote they consider all angles and please try to not just see it from either a single realm or a purely RvR point of view.

A pure RvR pov would see clustering as very sensible, and I can fully acknowledge and understand that. For RvR clustering worked well on the US servers. The other points of view were however catered for on the US servers by the sheer number of servers that allowed the choices I've described to be maintained.

I would ask peeps to bear in mind that clustering worked in the US because of the numbers of servers available, and that is a very different situation to what we have here in Europe.
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Post by Bebop »

imo let them server cluster, my mana ment will be camping towers 24/7 to farm teh alb zerg \o/

But on a serious note:

It's a change thats needed imo. Yup pryd rvr is picking up slowly, but with server merge there will always be action in RvR, there will always be large scale battles, which most of us tend to enjoy as some of us aint in opted gank grps etc..so large scale battles are fun & usually last a good part of the whole night..not 20secs :)

Theres the ups & downs of a server merge, but DAoC is about RvR imo.. Server merge will imrpove it :)
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Norcott
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Post by Norcott »

Briannon wrote:That all depends on the time they set.

On the US servers it was an 8 hours limit. So yeah, it would stop you dead in your tracks because 8 hours is a very long time to wait before you could log alts on - in most cases it would end the game session for the night. If GOA set it at 1 hour then that's perhaps more manageable, but just suppose you plan to do a ML raid on Hib, but you decide to level a few albs alts whilst w8ing for the raid to start. You'd have to ensure that you finish your levelling session X hours before the ML raid starts so you could log in with your hibs. I know most people would say "so what, just play your hibbies instead" but it is the restriction of choice that bothers me.
this is to prevent abuse and quiet rightly so tbh.. otherwise u would get people logging over to other realms in such cases of a RR call to either defend or attack as these sort of raids last longer than 1 hour.. i can see your point with regards to ML raids and such like.. but raids like ml raids are usually sorted out in advance and on a clustered server with excal. doesnt strike me as a prob.. as more people would be running the raids anyway.. my only concern would be arti camping/farming issues and community spirit changing ie: the prydwen community losing its identity if any other zones apart from RVR were clustered.
But the bottom line is we need more people on the servers and what people are forgetting is that not that long ago.. 12 mths or so.. prydwen server had more people playing on it than would be if you merged both excal and prydwen together today.
Any way the polls are open and we can only wait to hear what the people have voted on and just go with it ya never know it may improve the game it may not.. and im sure ive read somewhere it is reversable if its not going to plan..
time will tell eh..
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