New list of jobs at GOA for Warhammer online and others ..

Post by **Lieva** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:22 am

Satyn wrote:o ... k ... my angel comment was sarcastic guys ...

Sorry dear but technically you were correct.
If you live by the letter of the law and try to be a good person then to most people you would be an angel

Remember your smilie!!

Heta · Post by **Heta** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:25 am

Gandelf wrote:With the risk of sounding morbid, if, when you die, it suddenly becomes clear that the Gospel was true, then if you've believed it and believed in Jesus, then you've lost nothing. If you haven't believed, then you will have lost everything. Isn't it worth taking a chance on the Gospel for that reason alone?

Cause that won't happen, there is no god, and no heaven. When you die you are dead, thats it. Learn to live with life and stop living in a dream world

Sharkith · Post by **Sharkith** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:54 am

Satyn wrote: And i'm sorry gandy but you wont be converting me.

You do realise you just ruined his week?

Satyn · Post by **Satyn** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:37 am

Sharkith wrote:You do realise you just ruined his week?

I ame to please hun

And heta i do believe there is something out there, i dont believe we just die in rot in the earth. I've had a few weird experiences that made me think. If that is heaven and hell thats a totally diffrent story but i dont believe that we live on, but how and where ... no idea.

Post by **Xest** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:58 am

Gandelf wrote:Likewise, some of the evolutionists like Xest, still remain unswerving in their disbelief in God.

That's not entirely fair and a rather ignorant view. I accept the possibility of an existence of some entity which could be classed as a god, however this has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is a proven process with reproduceable proof and is a set of ideas that can quite happily stand alongside the existence of god, being an "evolutionist" needs to have no bearing on whether or not you believe in a god. So whilst I acknowledge the possibility of some entity (a god if you like) that could have full or little work in the creation of the universe I also see it as the least likely possible answer, there are simply better explanations out there and these explanations strengthen daily whilst the creationist explanation weakens. What I particularly disagree with however is the whole "the world/universe is only 6,000 years old" argument, that is frankly idiotic, there's a plethora of evidence that demonstrates otherwise. Particularly in the case of the universe, we can see light with our own eyes from objects so far away that what we see is a much higher than 6,000 year old view of the object and if you don't trust your own senses, then why assume that anything whatsoever is real? Of course it's convenient to believe the earth is only this old because to accept the reality that it's older begs the question - why did religious events only start occurring on the earth 6,000 years ago and not much earlier? It's convenient if the advent of religion ties in with the advent of humans.

Note also that whilst I accept that some form of god-like entity is possible, this doesn't mean in any way that the religions of this world have any real factual standing. As an example, if any deity were to exist, the idea that there is a heaven and hell is unrealistic, as is the idea that he had a magical miracle creating son, who was created in the image of a human when humans are most certainly not the most important set of entities on the planet - plant life outnumbers us in survivability and population and could exist without us, yet we can't exist without it, therefore the whole idea that humans are somehow the most important species in existence is arrogant to say the least.

Gandelf, does your belief not sound a bit... convenient? Religion was developed as a tool to control people and you're here telling us that you might as well become a believer because there's nothing to lose and everything to gain, it doesn't matter what you've done wrong you can still join the club - does this not sound like a perfect set of rules to maximise recruitment despite them being rather nonsensical otherwise? Also the fact that you tell people there's nothing to lose and that they may as well believe in god is rather interesting and also rather convenient - essentially it says that if you tell the world you believe in god (even if you don't deep down) you'll still go to heaven, this again sounds perfect from a control standpoint because if even those that don't believe deep down say they do just in case it gives the false impression that larger portions of the population believe than actually do. More worryingly is the idea that if you're a Christian it doesn't matter if you kill you'll still go to heaven because this is exactly the line of thought that breeds Islamic suicide bombers, it's a perfect way to make people do the killing and dying for you whilst you sit back and reap the benefits. It's really no different to telling the kids if they don't go to bed Santa wont show up at the end of the day.

I don't know how well travelled you are Gandelf, but may I recommend you travel a bit? Visit say, Innuit territories in the North, native American territories in the US, central American ancients territories in Mexico and various eastern religious territories and so forth. When you get a broader perspective of the most far ranging beliefs you may begin to realise that Christianity has no more real a grounding than any other religion on earth and that whilst these beliefs all produce some impressive stories, that's all they are. It'd certainly be a shame for religions to all be wiped out because they're an impressive and important part of history but that's also just it - it's all belongs in history, the sooner this is realised worldwide the sooner we can move on.

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:42 pm

Satyn wrote:You need to tell me one thing tho Gandy ... what on earth happened that made you such a strong believer?

First and foremost, it's the witness of the Holy Spirit within me that gives me my unshakeable belief in God and his son Jesus. Unless you receive the Holy Spirit (i.e. become "born-again"), then it's something that those who aren't born-again can fully comprehend. I can't describe it in words, because it's something you have to experience. That sounds arrogant, I admit, but how else can I describe such an experience, if you assume for one moment I am correct?

Secondly, Christianity is the only religion where the "leader" of the religion willingly allowed themself to be killed because of his beliefs. No other religion can claim that. Also, out of all the apostles of Jesus, only one died through old age and natural causes. All the others were put to death for what they preached. If they were willing to allow that to happen, then surely they must have believed without reservation the truth about God and Jesus?

Also, again, please note that God did not sacrifice Jesus. Jesus willingly allowed himself to be crucified. If Jesus had not wanted it happen, then God would not have forced it to happen.

Or another way to put it, supposing your son, when he's 18, decides to join the Army. Supposing that he goes into battle and finds himself in a position where he could save the lives of lots of people, but only through sacrificing his own life. He's an adult. Therefore, surely he has the right to decide for himself to give up his life? It would not be the decision of you or Thand. That's how it was with Jesus. Jesus was 33 when he allowed himself to be crucified for his beliefs. It was his decision alone!

Heta · Post by **Heta** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:48 pm

blablablabla

what now?

Post by **Xest** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:55 pm

Gandelf wrote:Secondly, Christianity is the only religion where the "leader" of the religion willingly allowed themself to be killed because of his beliefs. No other religion can claim that. Also, out of all the apostles of Jesus, only one died through old age and natural causes. All the others were put to death for what they preached. If they were willing to allow that to happen, then surely they must have believed without reservation the truth about God and Jesus?

What's the relevance of this? there's no evidence it's anything more than a story with no more evidence for it than Lord of the Rings. Even if it were to be true why does it in anyway show that their beliefs were real? It means no more than you telling us you believe in god, dying for your beliefs for example doesn't make your beliefs any more valid. I'm not sure what you're actually trying to demonstrate in this paragraph.

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:00 pm

Heta wrote:blablablabla

what now?

Nothing. You either believe or you don't. It's your choice to disbelieve, just as much as it is for to believe.

I'm sure we can both learn to respect each other's beliefs.

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:03 pm

Xest wrote:That's not entirely fair and a rather ignorant view. I accept the possibility of an existence of some entity which could be classed as a god.

I apologise for misunderstanding you. I am glad that you have an open mind and I appreciate it. I too have an open mind. I am willing to consider the possibility that I am wrong, but so far my experiences as a Christian far outweigh any other belief.