Petition against car tracking

<ankh> · Post by **<ankh>** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:21 pm

Xest wrote:I think the Sharkith vs. Gandelf fight is definitely going in favour of Sharkith atm.

Haha

/Ankh

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:09 pm

Sharkith wrote:
£2 billion benefit fraud estimate per year

Doctors pay increase costing approximately £4.9 Billion per year inside 10 years

Now ask yourself who is taking who for a ride. I am only going on the figures that I can find and the estimates might be out but it looks to me like a very small number of people took a very large sum 3 years ago....

So are you saying, Sharkith, that we should ignore benefit fraud?
Are you saying that the £2 Billion in benefit fraud doesn't matter?
Are you saying that nothing should be done about it?

Post by **Xest** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:36 pm

No he's saying you need to get your priorities straight.

Satyn · Post by **Satyn** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:54 pm

Xest 2 - Gandy 0

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:13 pm

Xest wrote:No he's saying you need to get your priorities straight.

I'm sure that Sharkith can answer his own questions. He doesn't need you to make his mind up for him.

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:18 pm

Satyn wrote:Xest 2 - Gandy 0

Wish I had wit, but then not everyone can have everything!

<ankh> · Post by **<ankh>** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:43 pm

Gandelf wrote:I'm sure that Sharkith can answer his own questions. He doesn't need you to make his mind up for him.

Touchy eh?

/Ankh

Sharkith · Post by **Sharkith** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:28 pm

Gandelf wrote:So are you saying, Sharkith, that we should ignore benefit fraud?
Are you saying that the £2 Billion in benefit fraud doesn't matter?
Are you saying that nothing should be done about it?

On the scheme of things it is a drop in the ocean Gandelf. You should look at the people who are already earning over twice the national average and the fact that last year they had an 11% pay rise in one year. All out of your pocket. Just to give you the scale of this. Firefighters had very big publicity in their strike a few years back what did they get?

under stage 1, pay rates have been increased by 4%, backdated to November 2002] From here

So basically doctors who earn over twice the fire fighters got in one year what the fire fighters got in two....

If you look closer it is likely for example that many medical and dental students will be jobless when they are fully trained. Basically the existing people in the system grabbed all the money meant for the new people coming through. The result? Further shortage and further problems for the NHS. Even though we now pay more month on month for the service.

I will tell you why you pick on benefit fraud, because the poor are easy targets. Do you even know what the term 'poverty trap' refers to?

The next time you want to bring up spongers try just stopping and thinking for once. We have far more serious problems to worry about.

Satyn · Post by **Satyn** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:01 pm

<ankh> wrote:Touchy eh?

/Ankh

i would love to see Xest and Gandy meet irl ... i want first row tickets

Post by **Lairiodd** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:50 pm

Sharkith wrote: From here

So basically doctors who earn over twice the fire fighters got in one year what the fire fighters got in two....

The problem is that doctors are paid directly by the government. If patients could choose their doctors, pay would be more reasonable. This could be achieved by a voucher system, though private medical insurance is better. Also, doctors should be allowed to advertise. IRRC, pharmacies cannot advertise that they sell stuff for less.

Also, the medical profession can control the number of graduates etc, creating a shortage.

If you look closer it is likely for example that many medical and dental students will be jobless when they are fully trained.

... or just leave the country.

I will tell you why you pick on benefit fraud, because the poor are easy targets. Do you even know what the term 'poverty trap' refers to?

The next time you want to bring up spongers try just stopping and thinking for once. We have far more serious problems to worry about.

Right, the problem is that it is in the interests of some factions in government to have poor people. The welfare state creates people who then depend on the government for support. This creates a voting block that then maintains the welfare state.

In tax systems, the main issue is the marginal tax rate.

If you earn £1 more, how much will you have to pay to the government. When people think of this, they probably think of the top rate of taxation, i.e. the 40% band. If you are in the top band, £100 more income will only get you £60 more.

However, for very low incomes, the effective marginal tax rate can be more than 100%. If you get a job, the loss in benefits can exceed the income from the job. This creates a disincentive to try to find work.

One option would be to allow anyone who isn't in the top band to pay say, 30% of their salary and in exchange they get to keep all benefits that an unemployed person would get.

This means that an unemployed person could earn £100 a week and pay £30 to the government as tax and keep all his benefits. Eventually, the person would be better off just paying tax in the normal way. The main point is that it gaurentees that nobody will have a marginal tax rate of more than 30% (until they hit the top band).

I would also include a rule that anyone using the scheme and paying more than £15 a week in taxes gets their unemployment benefits mailed to them and don't need to queue up for them.