Forums @ Prydwen.net

There's no such thing as an overpowered class, only good and bad players.

Discuss.


My contention is that, if played properly, any class will appear overpowered when viewed by someone else who is not playing their own class to its maximum potential.

A character that has the right balance of skill specs, with suitably chosen artifacts, spell-crafted armour and experience of different game situations will appear to some, to be overpowered. However, what sets them apart from other classes are factors that the player can choose and can influence and the real advantage comes from player knowledge, not class imbalance.

Take the bainshee for example. With the right choice of mob, combination of spells and an understanding of when to use what in which circumstances the bainshee can deliver significant damage. However, get any one or more of those things wrong and the bainshee is nothing more than a squidgy cloth-wearing caster who goes down quicker than Stockport County.

Recently (not naming people or places or servers) I witnessed a bainshee in the frontiers and not once did I see the aoe root deployed or the frontal arc dd engaged. Did not also see the aoe bolt used and instead all the player seemed to use was the single mob dd shout. That bainshee was not overpowering anything in RvR so I couldn't help wondering if I was witnessing a cursed forest power-levelled toon being controlled by someone who had no idea about the full range and utility the class had to offer.

So, back to the original point - is there such a thing as overpowered or is it just the difference between good and bad players?

A debating point for peeps to consider

Briannon wrote:There's no such thing as an overpowered class, only good and bad players.

Discuss.

Not true. Those two things are not related.

It doesnt matter if a good or bad player or a monkey plays a warlock. As long as he can press 4 buttons your insta death ;p That is an overpowered class 2 different things

[quote="Quinlan"]Not true. Those two things are not related.

It doesnt matter if a good or bad player or a monkey plays a warlock. As long as he can press 4 buttons your insta death ]

But surely, to do what you are saying the monkey has to know which four buttons to press and which spells, chambers, primers and secondaries to choose in the particular circumstances. I have tried to play a warlock and believe me, they take some getting used to. They are not as simple and straightforward as some may think. In my hands a warlock dies to single blue mobs.

Briannon wrote:But surely, to do what you are saying the monkey has to know which four buttons to press and which spells, chambers, primers and secondaries to choose in the particular circumstances. I have tried to play a warlock and believe me, they take some getting used to. They are not as simple and straightforward as some may think.

You have to know something about the class to be able to play it. But that has to do with knowledge and nothing to do with skill. An overpowered class is a class where a bad player can win in way to many situations and a good player in almost all sitations. Hence not connected so no true imo.

Quinlan wrote:You have to know something about the class to be able to play it. But that has to do with knowledge and nothing to do with skill. An overpowered class is a class where a bad player can win in way to many situations and a good player in almost all sitations. Hence not connected so no true imo.

Thanks for responding to my messages Quinlan and for getting this discussion off to a good start. What do others think?

The point is that the effectiveness of a char = (player skill)*(class power)

For example, take a level 30 vs a level 50. It is possible for the level 30 to win, but for that to happen consistantly, the skill differential has to be huge.

I guess your question is how large a range on class power is there. For example, if all classes/specs give a class power in the range from 0.9 to 1.1, then no class is extremely overpowered. However, some classes are more powerful.

So, the question is not if there are overrpowered classes, it is how large is the additional power. If player skill ranged from 0.1 to 10 (say), then player skill would dominate.

I guess the test would be if you had 2 groups (as the game is a grouping game). One group is all opted specs and perfect classes, the other group is badly setup. The badly setup group is played by experienced/good players and the opted group is played by inexperienced/poor players. Basically, one night Mythic implement a system where you swap groups with your enemy . Which group will win ?

Lairiodd wrote: I guess the test would be if you had 2 groups (as the game is a grouping game). One group is all opted specs and perfect classes, the other group is badly setup. The badly setup group is played by experienced/good players and the opted group is played by inexperienced/poor players. Basically, one night Mythic implement a system where you swap groups with your enemy . Which group will win ?

This is another topic and you would need to know more about the situation to guess/know a winner. How badly setup is bad setup..

Briannon wrote:Recently (not naming people or places or servers) I witnessed a bainshee in the frontiers and not once did I see the aoe root deployed or the frontal arc dd engaged. Did not also see the aoe bolt used and instead all the player seemed to use was the single mob dd shout. That bainshee was not overpowering anything in RvR so I couldn't help wondering if I was witnessing a cursed forest power-levelled toon being controlled by someone who had no idea about the full range and utility the class had to offer.

Considering the caoe bolt... it's very unlikely you see it, the moment that grey ball flies it's usually covered by the caoe dd effect... at least when you've got 370 dex or more and 10% casting speed.

Depends what situation you're in. On open field, the single target dd is mostly the best option, as the aoes will likely only be mezz-breakers. Only in close quaters aoes rock the house.

Don't know which bainshee you've been watching but considering the root... yesterday I gave up rooting when any other hibs were around, 'cause as soon as I rooted someone the next ranger, ns or vamp was there to knock him out of the root again... perhaps they thought it was a stun as it's the same graphical effect. :rolleyes:

Considering warlocks... those I encountered 'til now didn't mean much harm (guess mostly wearing rog equip etc.) as most of their damage was eaten up by my magic health buffer.

Lairiodd wrote:The point is that the effectiveness of a char = (player skill)*(class power)

For example, take a level 30 vs a level 50. It is possible for the level 30 to win, but for that to happen consistantly, the skill differential has to be huge.

I guess a similar differential is the gap between realm ranks in RvR. Quite often we hear people commenting that they've been wiped by high RR enemies and so the other night when I came across a RR11 mid I was expecting a very quick death. However, on that night ML abilities that had previously been ignored were being used and I bested this guy. On that occasion the difference of 9 RRs didn't seem to be significant. So, I'm wondering what has changed? Not my class so could it be my understanding of the class and the skills I deploy that has made the difference? Or was I just darned lucky? Or are nightshades with ML10 now overpowered? I think not.

Adianna wrote:
Don't know which bainshee you've been watching

I don't think it was you