Plat/PLing for cash... Can it be stopped?

[Gandelf]

I'm starting this thread to see if we can come up with some ideas to prevent internet "companies" from selling Plat/Gold/Power Levelling for real money. It doesn't seem to happen as much with DAoC, but on other mmorpgs it is rife. So, I'm wondering if we can come up with some ideas to make it impossible for people to trade Plat/Gold/Power-levelling in-game. It must be possible somehow and I've always believed that where there's a will, there's a way.

First of all, when does it become a "crime"? Does advertising such a service break the CoC, or does it become a crime only when someone pays for the service and receives the "goods"? If it's the latter, then what measures could be implemented to prevent it from happening in-game?

Is there a way, perhaps, that in-game money could be "bound" to a person, so that it's impossible to give it to someone else? Trouble with that is that it prevents players from donating money to new players, etc. etc. Then there is the problem of trading money for a crafting services. So it's a tricky one.

So, is there a way maybe, that special NPCs could be used when money is traded in-game, so that when a crafting service is supplied, or when money is donated, some verification process takes place?

Any ideas?

[Kallima]

Unrealistic I think.

[<ankh>]

Tbh I don't see why it matters if somebody pays for a PL or if he get PL'd for other reasons. I would never ever pay for a PL but some people don't have time or like to level their own char so I can kind of understand them.

Personally I don't care about the one standing afk at the fin group - no matter if he's a mate to the guy who arranged the group, his own alt OR a guy paid him to do so.

Trouble with that is that it prevents players from donating money to new players, etc. etc. Then there is the problem of trading money for a crafting services. So it's a tricky one.

If the one doing the PLing does it for a new player to be kind or if he does it for cash/ingame money - will you actually notice any difference? There will always be people pl'ing other chars anyway so imo its just stupid to bother with this subject.

/Ankh

[Lairiodd]

I'm starting this thread to see if we can come up with some ideas to prevent internet "companies" from selling Plat/Gold/Power Levelling for real money. It doesn't seem to happen as much with DAoC, but on other mmorpgs it is rife.

My understanding is that Goa (and presumably Mythic) run alot of stings. They buy money from online companies and then ban the accounts when the company tries to do the trade. (I am not sure if they do the reverse .. probably not). The trick they are using isn't to stop it, it is just to push up the cost to the traders. If 90% of the gold you farm is lost (and also the account), then the gold costs 10 times what it would have cost. This reduces demand and pushes farmers to other games. It is still probably present in daoc.

So, I'm wondering if we can come up with some ideas to make it impossible for people to trade Plat/Gold/Power-levelling in-game. It must be possible somehow and I've always believed that where there's a will, there's a way.

Just assign GMs to crack down on it. Stings and a willingness to ban customers is all that is needed to reduce it to a low level.

First of all, when does it become a "crime"? Does advertising such a service break the CoC, or does it become a crime only when someone pays for the service and receives the "goods"? If it's the latter, then what measures could be implemented to prevent it from happening in-game?

Breaking the CoC isn't a crime in any case, it's a breech of contract.

The companies that are doing it are also advertising ... so I am not sure what you mean? Are you asking if gold farming with the intent to sell is a breech of the COC? You can't ban someone just for doing that as many people farm.

Is there a way, perhaps, that in-game money could be "bound" to a person, so that it's impossible to give it to someone else? Trouble with that is that it prevents players from donating money to new players, etc. etc. Then there is the problem of trading money for a crafting services. So it's a tricky one.

Money that is not tradable is not really money. The whole point of cash is that it is tradable.

So, is there a way maybe, that special NPCs could be used when money is traded in-game, so that when a crafting service is supplied, or when money is donated, some verification process takes place?

Any ideas?

I saw one idea that didn't allow people to sell to a specific person. I could sell my items but they had to be auctioned in a city. This meant that you couldn't give a person an item. If you put an expensive item on the auction for a low amount, someone else would buy it.

They prevented money transfers by not saying which item matched which seller. The buyer could end up buying the item from the wrong person.

[Gandelf]

I was going on the premise that it is against the rules of the CoC to pay real money in exchange for in-game money. Also that it is against the rules of the CoC to pay someone real money in exchange for a power-levelling service. The issue is paying real money. If someone chooses to give someone in-game money for nothing, or to power-level someone for nothing, then I see nothing wrong with that.

What I believe is wrong is that someone who doesn't want the hassle of levelling a character or earning in-game money the hard way and who pays for these services is breaking the CoC. That's clearly wrong. I believe it is also against the CoC to sell accounts, especially where such accounts contain fully levelled characters. If such people (or should I say "cheats") want to play the game, then they should play it the hard way like most other players do. If someone isn't prepared to play the game the "hard" way, then in my opinion, they shouldn't be playing the game at all.

The CoC is there for reason. No matter how much we debate whether it is right or wrong to pay real money for some in-game service, the fact is that the CoC still says that it's wrong and as such, we should respect those rules. It's not for individual players to decide which parts of the CoC are to broken for their own personal gain.

[<ankh>]

I was going on the premise that it is against the rules of the CoC to pay real money in exchange for in-game money. Also that it is against the rules of the CoC to pay someone real money in exchange for a power-levelling service. The issue is paying real money. If someone chooses to give someone in-game money for nothing, or to power-level someone for nothing, then I see nothing wrong with that.

What I believe is wrong is that someone who doesn't want the hassle of levelling a character or earning in-game money the hard way and who pays for these services is breaking the CoC. That's clearly wrong. I believe it is also against the CoC to sell accounts, especially where such accounts contain fully levelled characters. If such people (or should I say "cheats") want to play the game, then they should play it the hard way like most other players do. If someone isn't prepared to play the game the "hard" way, then in my opinion, they shouldn't be playing the game at all.

The CoC is there for reason. No matter how much we debate whether it is right or wrong to pay real money for some in-game service, the fact is that the CoC still says that it's wrong and as such, we should respect those rules. It's not for individual players to decide which parts of the CoC are to broken for their own personal gain.

True - but how much you think it affects you? I respect the rules, but I don't see why I should have to bother with what other players do as long as it doesnt affect me. There is really nothing to gain from it imo.

Edit: Especially since there are far more important things in the game that needs mine/yours/ours attention.

Edit 2: I should mention that I never broke the rules and would have dream of doing so either. I also think its stupid to pay for Powerleveling. But I just don't care much about the ones that do it. Thats all. But as I don't play the game anymore these I don't need to follow these rules anyway

/Ankh

[Shi]

no offense Gandelf as i know u got good intentions but the naivety of this thread is killing.
99% of ppl playing this game use BBs (and prolly using this board) and u gonna debate the fact of prling or buying gold.
it's pretty hilarious

[Puppet]

. It's not for individual players to decide which parts of the CoC are to broken for their own personal gain.

Hear hear! But who are you to decide the part of money-transfers (intrade for real life money) needs more attention then being gross to someone (which is also forbidden in the CoC) ?

I really dont think the farming money / PL for rl-money is a major issue in DAOC.

[Requiel]

For the record.
We do keep a close eye on people we suspect are farming teams for online plat traders. We also aggressively hunt down organised traders on our servers. For obvious reasons I'm not going to describe the methods we use but we are able to react to the increasingly devious ways that the traders use to mask their activities.
It's against the CoC to trade ingame objects, money or services for real money. As with any aspect of our CoC we reserve the right to uphold it and punish those who choose to break it. We can't act directly against the websites as they aren't breaking any laws, we can only act against their ingame aspects - characters and accounts - which are usually permabanned when we find them.

As to why it's bad, well imagine this. Consider high value 'must have' drops. Lets say there is a team farming them on your server 24/7. All of these items are only available from their CM or their website at a ridiculous price - they control the market, they can set the price. Now people can't afford the item because it's a silly amount of plats, but never mind! The company will sell you the plats so you can afford the item! Eventually they have such a stranglehold on the market for high level items that practically anyone who wants a competitive template needs to pay real money to that company to be able to play at the top level. I'm pretty sure that you can see how that is bad for the game.

Even if the situation never gets as bad as that (and since the ToA changes a few patches ago, it's harder to have a stranglehold on must have items), it still hurts the community. Your success or otherwise ingame should depend entirely on your ingame efforts. If you can pay to get an advantage then there is little point in actually playing the game normally and anyone who plays the game properly sees their efforts demeaned and cheapened. I don't want to see that happen in any game I play.

Before anyone brings up the BB argument, I'd like to point out that it's by no means the same thing as being able to bypass playing the game by flexing your wallet.

[Arcsalin]

Well on that BB arguement Requiel. In some ways you are by passing the game by using your wallet. I have since quit playing because of the BB's and I cannot afford to play two accounts. It is just impossible now to play any character without the use of a BB and I like to solo but am I hell as like paying for two accounts and two pc's and a nice pipe to run a game that is still in 32 bit mode. You just cannot compete now in RvR without one. In PvE it is possible to get by but it is damned slow.......

I say GoA please permit a buff NPC that I can pay for buffs from - even if my subs were to rise slightly for that NPC I would pay it, and then I would be back in a shot

And before anyone says it...it is possible to have NPC's that give full buffs