Bye from Thand and me

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:50 pm

Just because you're in a minority doesn't mean your'e wrong. Sometimes you have to go against the majority for what you believe in. Also, I will always take GOA's side because their interpretation of the CoC is totally above any single player's or group of players' opinion. If this were not the case, then it would lead to total chaos, with anyone or any group doing things purely for their own good. GOA has ruled, GOA is right, you have to accept the "law of the land".

EDIT: In other words, you have to respect the "chain of command", whether you like it or not!

Post by **Lieva** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:17 pm

you can respect the chain of command

this does not mean you have to agree with it

Belisar · Post by **Belisar** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:23 pm

Gandelf wrote:Also, I will always take GOA's side because their interpretation of the CoC is totally above any single player's or group of players' opinion.

Ah and that is where the issue is.

Requiel has clearly said this is a grey area and is subjective. There is not nor has there ever been a clear rule or definition. So what we have is a few English server people sitting around a desk and saying "well we have not seen this before and we need to do something about it".

There action was and remains at a minimum heavy handed and unnecessary.

We are talking here of a breach of the "spirit of the game" that is what TT were banned for. Spirit of the game surely means doing something that most players do not like. Here we have a situation that most players who have polled on FH (and that may not be all but how else can we tell) find they support.

I also have to say that GOA should act in line with the views of most players, else we see the current results. Players leaving in droves for US servers (or Avalon) and RvR falling apart. Is it not in everyone's interest to keep the game and the server running ? Is stuffing RvR not against the spirit of the game ?

As for chain of command - well even the majority have a say in that, after all did not a majority vote in Blair, Bush etc ?

I suspect not everyone will agree on what the right response should have been but the results of GOA's actions are clear for all to see. They need to act fast in order to stop peeps leaving even faster than they already are.

Post by **Xest** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:41 pm

Gandelf wrote:Just because you're in a minority doesn't mean your'e wrong. Sometimes you have to go against the majority for what you believe in. Also, I will always take GOA's side because their interpretation of the CoC is totally above any single player's or group of players' opinion. If this were not the case, then it would lead to total chaos, with anyone or any group doing things purely for their own good. GOA has ruled, GOA is right, you have to accept the "law of the land".

EDIT: In other words, you have to respect the "chain of command", whether you like it or not!

But should they really stray so far from the rules that Mythic set when Mythic are the ones that, you know design the game, develop the game and have 10 years or whatever experience in what rules define a good game?

This isn't exactly the first time GOA has shown bias in a decision though, I remember some years ago when Hib did a relic raid and the server dropped 90% of players with connection issues during it, Hib got the relic home but GOA deemed this unfair and returned it to Alb. The same thing happened in reverse a few days later where Alb relic raided Hib yet GOA decided in this case to let Alb keep the relic despite the situations being identical. IIRC this was before Requiel's time, I think it was Kemor era but regardless, with GOA's lack of proper rules and due process in enforcing rules the decision comes down to the individual GM's choice which has unfortunately, at least in 2 occasions now been biased and goes against precedents set elsewhere be it on Mythic's servers or be it past comments from GOA staff or even past incidents on GOA's servers. It's just one of a million instances that show how utterly unprofessional GOA is, as unprofessional as say, not having a proper server backup routine

Monk · Post by **Monk** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:28 am

heya, thand told me before that you 2 mite be leaving, very sad state of affairs!, had loads of fun over the years, loads of POC iirc

let me know what server etc u join on warhammer coz i fancy giving that a go, would be good to have FS on there too,

ill keep the guild going best as i can, and if i dont see either of u on in the next 6 months ill be shocked

goodluck and all the best

OohhoO · Post by **OohhoO** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:09 am

Gandelf wrote:you have to accept the "law of the land".

No you don't Gandi.
With a game same as with a country you can choose to leave instead, and that is what people are doing Hibside & Midside in droves.

Belisar wrote:They need to act fast in order to stop peeps leaving even faster than they already are.

They won't act.
Too stubborn & too impotent.

I kinda think people moving to Avalon are doing GOA a favour. They're still paying GOA their subs & if the cluster declines much further then GOA will be able to save cash by no longer needing to spend so much supporting it. Moving to the US or just plain quitting I can understand much more easily.

Post by **Lieva** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:13 am

OohhoO wrote:I kinda think people moving to Avalon are doing GOA a favour. They're still paying GOA their subs & if the cluster declines much further then GOA will be able to save cash by no longer needing to spend so much supporting it. Moving to the US or just plain quitting I can understand much more easily.

to be fair
the peeps moving to avalon did were doing so before this whole mess.

But read selenias pro-us post and go there if you do go US

Ovi · Post by **Ovi** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:21 am

Gandelf wrote:Just because you're in a minority doesn't mean your'e wrong. Sometimes you have to go against the majority for what you believe in. Also, I will always take GOA's side because their interpretation of the CoC is totally above any single player's or group of players' opinion. If this were not the case, then it would lead to total chaos, with anyone or any group doing things purely for their own good. GOA has ruled, GOA is right, you have to accept the "law of the land".

EDIT: In other words, you have to respect the "chain of command", whether you like it or not!

In this the "chain of command" goes higher. We have the ultimate power, if we don't like what Goa do, then we can stop giving them our cash. They haven't had any off me for a while, and unless WAR is the best thing since sliced bread and I can't play on the US servers (which is unlikely), they won't be seeing any more.

Belisar wrote:As for chain of command - well even the majority have a say in that, after all did not a majority vote in Blair, Bush etc ?

Not the best analogy, since neither were voted in by a majority.

Gandelf · Post by **Gandelf** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:15 am

Might I suggest that we make a new thread and transfer all the non-relevant posts to it? Originally this thread was a farewell from Satyn and Thand and it should remain so (no fingers pointed). I think it would be a good thing to do. Thanks.

<ankh> · Post by **<ankh>** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:42 am

I don't think they mind - cos Ellen has posted about this subject too in this thread