Animists

[Cryn]

I have tried it.

I can see how most people would like it and like to get to be friends with the people online. I like to make friends, too. I just prefer to keep the roleplaying atmosphere. I've never been a "proper" roleplayer, cos I don't play in character, but I've played RPGs of one sort or another since I was 11yrs old and it's part of why I play.

If I want fast-paced team-based combat, I'd go X-Box live and do it.

Ah well, I know why everyone loves voice. I know its prevalence shows that most DO love it. It's a shame that I don't but in a way not entirely a bad thing - limits my time in game, which is good for my real life.

And Sharkith, I don't say that animists don't have some good abilities, but even the ones you pointed out have serious downsides. When bombing someone, you don't know how many wisps it will take to kill. You either try to save power and risk not doing enough, or you go all out and see a couple of your wisps hanging in the air after the fight. Tangler turrets are a 5 sec cast spell and they then take an additional 3 secs (not affected by stats) to cast their own spell. A lot of fights this delay limits their usefulness severely.

I like the animist class, but I wish we had just one or two little tweaks to bring us up to par with other nukers.

[Sharkith]

And Sharkith, I don't say that animists don't have some good abilities, but even the ones you pointed out have serious downsides. When bombing someone, you don't know how many wisps it will take to kill. You either try to save power and risk not doing enough, or you go all out and see a couple of your wisps hanging in the air after the fight. Tangler turrets are a 5 sec cast spell and they then take an additional 3 secs (not affected by stats) to cast their own spell. A lot of fights this delay limits their usefulness severely.

I like the animist class, but I wish we had just one or two little tweaks to bring us up to par with other nukers.

I am not arguing about the tweaks because you have a point about the delays. Most people I have played with let 3 wisps off and move targets - the stacking effect is actually very effective and can really surprise healers.

[Cryn]

Yup and what really gets them is if you time your lifetapping to start as the first bomb hits. Before DI became so common, you'd find anis killing people outright very quickly. I used to get a lot of deathspam even at low RR. DI now buys people time to spot the wisps or move out of range, so the impact is not so big unless you got assisting anis.

[Xest]

DI effects everyone just as much, not like it's any worse for anis. It's really no different than a pure DD nuker burning nukes to no effect only to have the enemy kite away after seeing he's being attacked by a nuker for example.

[Cryn]

Yes, DI does have the same direct affect, but I think you missed what I was getting at. There was a time when the animist wisp>wisp>wisp>Condebuff>LT>LT would have killed quite a few enemies outright (give or take a wisp/LT either side). The impact of the backloaded damage made the difference between life and death. Since DI that's not the case. Maybe other classes have faced similar issues in life/death. Not sure, but it certainly means backloaded damage is worth a whole lot less. The whole point of backloading is that your enemies don't get as much time to react. With DI they get all the time they need.

[Xest]

Not convinced it's any different to my theurgist picking some random caster and 2/3 shotting him, it's not like there's often time to react without DI anyway to multiple nukes. If anything seeing wisps flying towards you gives you time to react, not so with 3 direct DDs that rip like 40% life off each hit.

[Cryn]

Not sure how it measures against Theurg. Never played one. I'd think it is entirely different given that people have always nuked down Theurg pets, even before DI, but that's just me guessing. I do know that my light eld would not have killed people outright as often with stun+nuke, though with that the principle is quite similar.

Seeing the wisps isn't really a factor. If the enemy is facing you he'll know you're casting as soon as he sees the anims watever your class. The whole thing is only relevant if he doesn't see you casting on him (and therefore won't see the wisps either), which can be quite often if you put some effort it. Even more often if you look like a shroom (in the days before shrooms were CC/nuked on sight)

[Xest]

Wasn't on about theurg pets, just pure old DD. Nuke nuke nuke, dead in 3 secs flat out of nowhere gives much less reaction time than "Oh look there's 3 wisps flying at me I'll just run away from them, P.S. Healer be ready to heal me in case they catch me pls, thanks". Only reason wisps are good is that they're higher delve than any other nuke really.

If animist has their RR5 up in a few shrooms or something you usually see wisps first before you realise it's an animist, there's plenty of situations where you don't see the animist before you see the wisps. Even when you do see him, him casting still gives more reaction time than a DD nuker, you see a DD nuker nuking you and you've already lost a massive chunk of health, a couple more secs and your dead. You see animist bombing you and you just tell your healer you have bombers inc and heal against them or just nuke the hell out the animist so he can't cast anymore and dies before the wisps nuke you.

Really just think you're grasping for animist whine, they have more than their fair share of bugs still (a lot of which work in their advantage however) but they're really not a gimp class by any measure. Suggesting animists aren't on par with other nukers is just silly, bombers have their disadvantages because they're definetely not your only weapon and can be stacked with your other weapon - lifetap for maximum effectiveness. Whilst not that amazing in the field Animists are still extremely overpowered in seige/stand offs so asking for boosts to bring you up to par with other nukers is a pretty good joke. If you want an open field nuker then the animist isn't for you, likewise theurg is sucky in keep defence/offence with slow elementalist cast times and theurg pets not working in keeps/towers but I'm aware that's a class limitation and make up for it for being solid in the field.

There are lots of classes that excel in one roll but suck in another, just because they suck in one situation doesn't mean they need boosts, along with bainshees Animists are the best seige/stand off combat class period and to be that well off in any particular roll is something you should be extremely greatful for, not something you should whine about expecting to excel in another roll as well. Some class don't excel at anything at all...

[Cryn]

No, I'm not grasping for animist whine. Sharkith quite rightly pointed out that backloaded damage is a shock for healers and I merely made the very simple point that since DI the value of that shock is severely reduced.

What your own contribution here is, I don't really understand. On the one hand you seem to be discounting the value of backloaded damage altogether, and on the other you are saying I am just looking to whine animist abilities. I think you're probably just being argumentative - you clearly aren't following the thread, since you ignored Sharkith's comments entirely and seem to be under the impression I have asked for animist boosts, which I haven't. You've even made exactly the same point I did about animists not being strong roaming, and yet present it as if arguing against something I said.

If you wanna think that backloading has no effect, I'm quite happy to agree to disagree. If you're right - Sharkith's original point about it being a strength of the animist is not true, and if I am right it is no longer the strength it was. Either way, we're agreeing that backloading CURRENTLY isn't a particular strength, so why should we argue?

[Xest]

Well the reason I'm posting is mostly your comment that Animists need boosts to bring them upto par with other nukers which is simply rediculous. Fact is Animists are seen as one of the most overpowered classes in game still so requiring boosts is a hell of a joke.

Overpowered backloading damage is essentially a result of buggy pathfinding so that wisps stack sometimes, otherwise the wisps would land exactly the cast time apart which makes it no different to someone being nuked by a normal nuker but with an initial delay. This buggy pathfinding mostly comes into effect in keeps and such or at least very rugged terrain hence it can't be expected to be depended on - quite frankly major backloading shouldn't even exist if it weren't for buggy pathing. What really makes wisps op'd for the most part is that they're such high delve.

Sorry if I took your post the wrong way but a request for boosts in the same post as saying something isn't as good as it used to be because of DI when DI effects everyone equally suggest that you're calling for unwarranted boosts.

As I say my solution for animists would always have been to drop them to 4 FnF shrooms, make the controllable move like a normal pet, stop FnF shrooms nuking through walls i.e. second LoS check, fix bugs such as bomber pathing and then depending on how they turn out from those changes potentially give them level 50 lifetap.