The importance of being earnest... er honest

[stupeh]

Whats the point having a filter?

Or are people offended by stars? or the implication of swearing? aswell as the words themselves? or is it just me who see's **

Too much do-gooder and whiner types in these here parts of late

I agree with the **** **** **** *** ******* ** **** above.

[Cromcruaich]

...I dont mind if ...

The position of E&E should be as someone who's opinion is trusted in reporting on in game problems and perhaps abuse.

I truly dont see why the reponses that are posted back from the GM's or other GOA employees should be for their eyes only. It should be available as a read only forum to prevent spam, with E&E able to post and express opinions freely. Hell that would prevent the poor GM's having to triple post to E&E, FH and here. Infact the whole idea that the E&E forum is closed to the vast majority of players is a complete anaethma that ive never really thought about until now.

[Shike]

The position of E&E should be as someone who's opinion is trusted in reporting on in game problems and perhaps abuse.

I truly dont see why the reponses that are posted back from the GM's or other GOA employees should be for their eyes only. It should be available as a read only forum to prevent spam, with E&E able to post and express opinions freely. Hell that would prevent the poor GM's having to triple post to E&E, FH and here. Infact the whole idea that the E&E forum is closed to the vast majority of players is a complete anaethma that ive never really thought about until now.

good points there, agree with the readonly part. Would save the GMs alot of agony and pain.

[Takitothemacs]

Whats the point having a filter?

Or are people offended by stars? or the implication of swearing? aswell as the words themselves? or is it just me who see's **

Too much do-gooder and whiner types in these here parts of late

who knows... but seems some people can read through the ****'s and take offence... nerf x-ray specs!

[Mojo]

who knows... but seems some people can read through the ****'s and take offence... nerf x-ray specs!

I think people should get a grip on the reality of life and accept that sometimes they see things they don't like. I also feel that the mods should stop protecting these people, and if any mod is so easily offended they should not be modding. I don't believe in flame fests and over swearing but this is going to far, actually removing already filtered words is ridiculous.

Bring back liberal modding and throw out the fluffies!!!!!!!!!!

If your going to censor stars then at least remove the filter!!

[Takitothemacs]

December 1st... Mod strike is off.

So anyone who doesnt like stars can star themselves to staring oblivion...

good enough?

[Sharkith]

Yes I do realise he didn't mean it literally, however it is one of the few times I have ever thought the word was deserved! I still shouldn't have posted as I did, somewhat hypocritical given my views on posting bad language on forums

I find it rather sad that even though he knew it "would call a storm on him" as gahn said, even though nothing contained in what he posted wasn't already known, even though he could see that Takits post had caused as much arguing between the community as condemnation of Goa, he still went ahead and posted it.

Satyn, I did "think for one minute why he did it.", in fact I took a bit longer than a minute since I didn't like the answer I was coming to after the first minute. I think that the best way I can describe why *I* think he did it is that he was "glory hunting".

Ovi,

I respect your position on this there is an answer to your query - another angle as it where. I said above I would not have broken confidentiality and it was a personal choice I also cannot speak for Keriwin but think about it like this.

This is whistle blowing.

Keriwin clearly felt he had a legitimate right to post this because he was blowing the whistle on what he firmly believes were lies. Lies that were being told to the community.

You can see this in the arguments and comments with the GM's. I am sorry to say it but he is not exactly articulate and his use of language works against getting across his point. It could have been put in very different ways and maybe the GM's would have admitted more than they actually did?

The language was counterproductive both in his debate with the GM's and also because some people here have responded in fury at this manner with the GM's. All of this is misdirected and missing the point of the thread and the act of whistle blowing.

It would have been better to leave that language out. However take time to see it from his perspective he seems to be really angry and frustrated. he is an E&E volunteer and seems to feel that nothing is being done. He starts shouting and gets no-where and his name is associated with GOA. They are clearly letting him down.

The shouting gets the argument nowhere and the GM's for the most bit are fairly solid are hard to move. He still feels something is wrong and in the end he blows the whistle.

OK so what has he blown the whistle on? What is the value of doing this if he was to feel he had some ethical pull towards breaching confidentiality?

I put it that the post establishes (besides all the negative stuff) the followin which we did not know:
a) Only 2 GM's now working on all issues lag, restoration and so on (some might have already known this but for me it is now there in black and white).
b) Both GM's are exhausted, dissapointed, deeply worried and hurt by the current situation

and c) the big one - the one bit we did not know about but we could have guessed I think
c) the cluster accidently resulted in a whole new batch of stripped characters appearing on the system and further burdened them - and from what I can see they did not anticipate this
d) then the last big one work has all but stopped. Now matter what anyone says - this means it is crawling along and has almost ceased. it is clear that restoration is faltering - do not lose it in translation this is very clear in the post.

Point c) (if it holds to scrutiny i.e. if they have not already told us about this, which I think they did) demonstrates a distinct lack of foresight about the decision to go ahead with the cluster. We don't know for sure but it looks like it. That said if the communicated more maybe we would not have to speculate.

I now have a question - did Keriwin pay a high moral price for releasing this to us? Was whistle blowing justified in this instance?

sorry a few edits there

[Mojo]

[quote="Takitothemacs"]December 1st... Mod strike is off.

So anyone who doesnt like stars can star themselves to staring oblivion...

good enough? ]

I would be happier if we had a token burning!

[Cromcruaich]

Ovi,

I respect your position on this there is an answer to your query - another angle as it where. I said above I would not have broken confidentiality and it was a personal choice I also cannot speak for Keriwin but think about it like this.

This is whistle blowing.

Keriwin clearly felt he had a legitimate right to post this because he was blowing the whistle on what he firmly believes were lies. Lies that were being told to the community.

You can see this in the arguments and comments with the GM's. I am sorry to say it but he is not exactly articulate and his use of language works against getting across his point. It could have been put in very different ways and maybe the GM's would have admitted more than they actually did?

The language was counterproductive both in his debate with the GM's and also because some people here have responded in fury at this manner with the GM's. All of this is misdirected and missing the point of the thread and the act of whistle blowing.

It would have been better to leave that language out. However take time to see it from his perspective he seems to be really angry and frustrated. he is an E&E volunteer and seems to feel that nothing is being done. He starts shouting and gets no-where and his name is associated with GOA. They are clearly letting him down.

The shouting gets the argument nowhere and the GM's for the most bit are fairly solid are hard to move. He still feels something is wrong and in the end he blows the whistle.

OK so what has he blown the whistle on? What is the value of doing this if he was to feel he had some ethical pull towards breaching confidentiality?

I put it that the post establishes (besides all the negative stuff) the followin which we did not know:
a) Only 2 GM's now working on all issues lag, restoration and so on (some might have already known this but for me it is now there in black and white).
b) Both GM's are exhausted, dissapointed, deeply worried and hurt by the current situation

and c) the big one - the one bit we did not know about but we could have guessed I think
c) the cluster accidently resulted in a whole new batch of stripped characters appearing on the system and further burdened them - and from what I can see they did not anticipate this
d) then the last big one work has all but stopped. Now matter what anyone says - this means it is crawling along and has almost ceased. it is clear that restoration is faltering - do not lose it in translation this is very clear in the post.

Point c) (if it holds to scrutiny i.e. if they have not already told us about this, which I think they did) demonstrates a distinct lack of foresight about the decision to go ahead with the cluster. We don't know for sure but it looks like it. That said if the communicated more maybe we would not have to speculate.

I now have a question - did Keriwin pay a high moral price for releasing this to us? Was whistle blowing justified in this instance?

sorry a few edits there

Yea, I was just about to say that.

[Takitothemacs]

Keriwin has paid a price, similar to that which I have paid. I am hated by GOA and there are those of the community that truly hate me for what I did in posting information and for "chasing a GM off the forums", in some ways becoming something of a pariah.

Lucky I have thick skin.. and am stuborn to boot. I gave up my position as an E&E as I thought I had good grounds to believe that by raising issues that werent publicly known that I could unite the pryd.net community to stand together, to stand up for our rights.

Keriwin (I believe) is of that same mind as me. We have given up positions of trust and risked being outcast by the community that we are so desperately fighting for.

Right or wrong... we did what we believed would ultimately help the community. I for one wouldnt change what I did. I wont speak for Keri on his actions though as thats not my right.