[Discussion] Lag issues

[Cromcruaich]

The relationship is that GOA is a brand for wanadoo to market its online gaming side of operations.

Wanadoo is a subsiduary of, and wholey owned by France Telecom, and is a vehicle and a brand in itself for France Telecom to sell commercial and domestic ISP services.

As said, France Telecom is responsible for all opentransit routers.

In the scheme of things GOA will be contributing a very small profit to the overall financial report to shareholders of FT, and may well still have to raise interneral orders to France Telecom to get their technicians to check opentransit routers.

Whats strange is that it looks like exactly the same problem as last time.

[Cromcruaich]

There are alternatives to using OpenTransit, and perhaps some of those should have been investigated way back when it became obvious the service was flaky.

I don't know the specifics for France, but countries tend to have more than one backbone operator, sometimes they are operators from other countries that have spurs you can connect to. For example in the UK, you could be on UUnet or BTnet. Another example is an ISP I know that operates in the UK but connects directly to the Verio network, which is part of the US backbone.

It's all just machines and cables when you get right down to it, and its nature is very flexible. If you want to move your server, there are plenty of options. It's more likely a commercial reason why DAoC in Europe goes over OpenTransit than a technical one.

It is highly unlikely that there is another router that could serve as an alternative route for the wanadoo labelled one that appears to be causing the problems.

In anycase, even if there was, using a service provided by the same umbrella company will be important in reducing the cost of the operation. It involves shifting internal orders between companies within the same organisation, as opposed to paying a different organisation - the difference is to a direct bottom line profit figure on the France Telecom financial reports to it's shareholders and the city (whatever the french equivalent is!).

[Kesxex]

It is highly unlikely that there is another router that could serve as an alternative route for the wanadoo labelled one that appears to be causing the problems.

It's like asking to change your local exchange. Choices are very limited in this regard. As such I assume that GOA is working behind the scenes to get the issues resolved.
Unfortunately there are predictable cycles of service for telecomms companies. Service is optimal at start, slags off over time, is rekindled after massive complaints, then slags off again and so forth.
I went through these phases with one of our company providers. In the end we established a working relationship when we stopped paying for their services (and had a backup in place - never trust a single telecomms provider).
But I don't think GOA has these options.

The frustration is high and the service is not existant. It is affecting all servers (all languages).

What I don't understand is GOA's stance that reminds me of "head in the sand and shouting <I can't see anything therefore nothing is wrong>". If there are really players in the company then these should state easily that the state of play is beyond acceptable levels.
But instead we get to hear: Everything is fine!
For a flagship company promoting the services of the mother company they are doing a disservice not only to their customers, but also to shareholders of the mother company. Which in effect is something an executive can get easier be fired for than customer disservice.

The first step is to acknowledge there is a problem for the customers. It is this stance as a company why I can't understand GOA. It is like they want to go out of business.

To be honest, leaving a fine community and multiple characters behind will not be easy. The game itself is still fun so I am contemplate too whether it is worth moving to the US. Transatlantic connections are better than connections to France - always.

But I lost confidence that GOA can provide an adequate service. They have periodically these lag problems and to be really frank: It is a shame that they are not able to solve their essential problems.

[Cryn]

In anycase, even if there was, using a service provided by the same umbrella company will be important in reducing the cost of the operation. It involves shifting internal orders between companies within the same organisation, as opposed to paying a different organisation - the difference is to a direct bottom line profit figure on the France Telecom financial reports to it's shareholders and the city (whatever the french equivalent is!).

Yes, this was the type of commercial decision I expect to be at the root of it. However, not being privvy to the actual costs involved and how they would be dispersed, I am not in a position to know how important the Wanadoo involvement is.

A few things worth noting, though.

Other MMORPGs manage to operate without having to rely on flaky ISPs. Those MMORPGs reach the same consumers for comparable prices. Few have prices we'd be unwilling to pay.

The cost of lost customers at this point in DAoC's life could be higher than margins on providers. There seems to be a critical mass of player base that differentiates MMORPGs that are alive from those that are dead (or dying) and DAoC (at least on the English servers) is hovering around that I'd say. Further significant in-roads into the player base could hurt a lot.

[OohhoO]

It's more likely a commercial reason why DAoC in Europe goes over OpenTransit than a technical one.

... or even a company-political decision. I could well imagine that even if GOA wanted to use a different company than OpenTransit then FranceTelecom would probably slap that idea down rather quickly.

I can't understand why FT would allow the service of any of its subsidiaries to be or become this lousy. It damages not only the reputation of the concern as a whole directly but also the reputation of the country concerned indirectly.

[Edlina]

Opentransit have caused endless problems ever since the opening of daoc servers yet goa still refuse to find a proper partner, it's fkin useless and there is no excuse.

Opentransit clearly can't provide, goa should have gotten a proper company (like wow for example, which are also based in Paris but do not have this kind of latency issues - they have server issues but that's besides the point) to work with, and gotten rid of OT a long long time ago.
And they should stop making up blatently idiotic responces like "it's the internet in general" which just shows their complete incompetence - not to mention that they infact are lying right to our faces - and unwillingness to bother doing anything about the subject.

[Cromcruaich]

Opentransit have caused endless problems ever since the opening of daoc servers yet goa still refuse to find a proper partner, it's fkin useless and there is no excuse.

GOA is owned by the company that owns the opentransit.

Oohhoo almost certainly had it spot on.

... or even a company-political decision. I could well imagine that even if GOA wanted to use a different company than OpenTransit then FranceTelecom would probably slap that idea down rather quickly.

What I would expect is that what I imagine is the biggest telecoms company in france has some personnel who are able to help resolve the problem.

[Arcsalin]

In earnest, I started this thread as more of a means of humoring people with some comedy whilst trying to find the correct information on FH as I had heard about it on my /as on mid excalibur at the time. I was xping artifacts on one of my mid chars and it was pretty much unplayable (ie I lost around 60g due to lag and ld's) (Big Deal:xest: ).

The subsequent threads on FH I saw were yes OTT and a rather kneejerk reaction from those that posted there and I saw much of it as humour albeit some had their issues to vent. I would really like this thread closed now as basically the temperature in it has degenerated from its original intent. Perhaps other threads should have been started around the time this was originally posted.

Yes I am annoyed at the service we are getting, but there are many other factors that are in play and are deserving of their individual merit. Perhaps it is wiser for people to see such merit in its own case and not to amalgamate them all together for the purpose of a witch hunt against a company that can do little about its lag issues and much of the software issues that cause the game we play.

Such threads are productive in that they do get read and digested if there is sufficient cause and frustration vented. Flimgoblin (FH) is at least trying to listen to current customer frustration with his own threads on that forum. It does show that they are listening and will take individual views into account. I am aware from the posts I have read that most of you would like to burn someone at the stake right now. But please, keep it out this thread and put it into the right forum where it will get the merit it deserves.

Thanks.

[OohhoO]

Arc, your thread was modded & amalgamated with 2 roughly similar threads started by different people, which is probably partly why it no longer bears any resemblance to the thread you started.

If a mod closed it at this point it would effectively mean he/she was closing 3 peoples threads which would be a little unfair on the other 2 people involved, who might then feel obliged to open new similar threads, thus effectively making the original modding pointless. We really don't want to get into a repeating cycle of thread-opening-modding-amalgamating-closing-reopening........

Maybe Quinlan can take your name off it or something. I don't know exactly what modding possibilities exist.

[Arcsalin]

To be fair to you matey, I think everything that can be be said has been. It serves no purpose to remain open. And yes I am aware that it was moderated for another purpose - which I am not pleased about but there's nothing I can do about an rr20 OP mod can I ?