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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:05 pm
by Briannon
Xest wrote:New server is a stupid waste of resources, the no-ToA thing rocks but the no buffs thing is stupid, buffs are too much of an important part of game balance nowadays with vamps and warlocks. Champs, Rangers, Friars will be gods with their self buffs etc. also. The other issue will be things like sorcs running round with their DI bots.
Essentially the only difference between the current and the new servers will be the types of classes in RvR, instead of now where you see a lot of classes, you'll just see classes that can work well with a buffbot stuck to them or classes that can buff themselves somewhere.
I find it kinda frustrating when a no-buffs option only got 5% of the original vote compared to 28% for home invasion and 23% for no-ToA, basically the new server is poorly thought out, unbalanced and not what the playerbase wanted. The only people who wanted it are ones who quit crying about buffs years ago, however I guarantee you they wont stay longer than a month or two when they get hit by a sorc with a DI bot attached to it and full cast speed bonuses and stat caps from Catacombs items.
Yep, thought so, you're unimpressed
Actually, the new server type doesn't prevent buff bots completely - they will just need to be within 5000 wu of the group they're buffing. This won't stop a person with two accounts having a bb running behind their main character, all it will stop is the orchard of druids I see on a daily basis sitting outside Ligen - there's dozens of them all standing there concentrating their buffs on people all over the frontiers. No wonder many of them look so damned ugly, the concentration needed to keep those buffs going must be horrendous.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:06 pm
by Briannon
Have you noticed as well how so many of my alts begin with "B". I must have a B-fetish.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:26 pm
by Xest
Briannon wrote:Yep, thought so, you're unimpressed
Actually, the new server type doesn't prevent buff bots completely - they will just need to be within 5000 wu of the group they're buffing. This won't stop a person with two accounts having a bb running behind their main character, all it will stop is the orchard of druids I see on a daily basis sitting outside Ligen - there's dozens of them all standing there concentrating their buffs on people all over the frontiers. No wonder many of them look so damned ugly, the concentration needed to keep those buffs going must be horrendous.
That's part the problem though, keep defenders can hide their bots in lords room and still allow their owns buffs, whilst people attacking will have to have their bots in the open where they can easily be killed, essentially there'll be no point attacking keeps on these servers as it'll be a full scale buffed vs. unbuffed fight.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:31 pm
by Jobbegea
next patches you get credit on x.10 encounters.
so no presteps needed to join ml3 or smth, you can join ml3 raid to get all bg's and do the groupsteps another time.
so ml's gonna be much better.
only presteps would be ml5
scroll drops drop from more mobs
they only need to fix arty respawns etc.
so toa could become fun
and about the non-buffbot server. thats gonna suck
5k range on buffs? say goodbye to keepoffence
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:06 pm
by OohhoO
I wonder how they're going to achieve any kind of class balance on these servers...
Just as an example ...
Wardens were considered totally gimp before ToA, and had been screaming for more damage output for years.
In ToA they could get the BattleMaster ML line with which their damage output was considered fixed.
After a while Wardens with their new higher damage output were considered overpowered so PBT got treated to a swing of the nerf bat.
Now on the new servers they will not only be back to being a gimp class with no BM line but they will have the nerfed PBT on top.
<senses a Warden rarity on teh new servers>
I'm sure there must be 2-3 classes in each realm which received similar post-ToA 'balancing', and which wlll seriously under-perform without ToA.
Similarly there are probably 2-3 classes in each realm which will seriously over-perform without ToA.
I'd be fascinated to know how Mythic are going to sort this out to everyones satisfaction.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:10 pm
by Zupernova
wooot sounds awsome ...
No toa ...
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:36 pm
by Cernos
Xest wrote:That's part the problem though, keep defenders can hide their bots in lords room and still allow their owns buffs, whilst people attacking will have to have their bots in the open where they can easily be killed, essentially there'll be no point attacking keeps on these servers as it'll be a full scale buffed vs. unbuffed fight.
I agree this is a problem. Trouble is, what's the alternative - to ban buffs completely? Guess if they did that, all the buffing classes would then be free to play with healing / crowd control specs and not need to be harassed constantly to micromanage everyones buffs.
But if they ban external buffs completely then it places any class who can self buff at an immediate advantage and Vampiirs become gods. Timered buffs (a-la WoW) wouldn't work either because in a keep defence you just go back to the lord room for a refresh.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:54 pm
by pikeh
Cernos wrote:I agree this is a problem. Trouble is, what's the alternative - to ban buffs completely? Guess if they did that, all the buffing classes would then be free to play with healing / crowd control specs and not need to be harassed constantly to micromanage everyones buffs.
But if they ban external buffs completely then it places any class who can self buff at an immediate advantage and Vampiirs become gods. Timered buffs (a-la WoW) wouldn't work either because in a keep defence you just go back to the lord room for a refresh.
i think if mythic removed buffs or put them on a timer, vamps enhanced stat line will have to be gone. I dont see what they could give to compensate for this loss though - maybe remove the parry buff and give them Advanced parry, which should be around 20% parry chance i reckon. seems sensible enough.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:58 pm
by pikeh
Luz wrote:when a G A M E on your PC might require you to sit nonstop for 4 hours or longer in order to progress there´s several things very wrong with it.
err... which is what i said??
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:59 pm
by Xest
Cernos wrote:I agree this is a problem. Trouble is, what's the alternative - to ban buffs completely? Guess if they did that, all the buffing classes would then be free to play with healing / crowd control specs and not need to be harassed constantly to micromanage everyones buffs.
But if they ban external buffs completely then it places any class who can self buff at an immediate advantage and Vampiirs become gods. Timered buffs (a-la WoW) wouldn't work either because in a keep defence you just go back to the lord room for a refresh.
Best idea I ever saw came from Mackey - make alchemy pot buffs feasible, make it so they last an hour or more, make pots stackable so essentially you can keep yourself perma-buffed with pots easily and without any real hassle, whilst leaving buffbots as is. This means everyone can be buffed, if you can't be arsed to drink like 6 pots or whatever every hour or two then you can still use your bot whilst not making it too much hassle for single PC players to keep buffed. This idea may seem a little far fetched a year or two ago where bots were still questioned but in todays game bots are a key part of balance and Vampiirs have buffs built in 100% of the time.
The only other option is add Vampiir perma-buffs to all classes, either way the current idea for 5000 unit (which by the way is MUCH further than clipping range) is insanely flawed and will wreck the servers it's implemented on.