Proposed list of "third" ML lines

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Sharkith
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Post by Sharkith »

Gandelf,

with due respect those other whatever percentage are still playing the game and so you probably can take a wild guess that for now they are pretty happy with it. Changing things is risk laden and so you have to be careful not to upset people - its that simple. I would cut her some slack on this.

Your second point about people who would have come back is just trying to make excuses. I mean come on lets not be silly about this. "Ohhh hey look OMG MEIGHTS shades now get FZ very 15mins - time to renew subscription...." bleh:

Please don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.:|
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Post by <ankh> »

Gandelf wrote:The other consideration is whether former customers might renew their subscriptions knowing that they could now choose a third way to go with ML abilities.
Had it been WILL instead of MIGHT in this sentence it might have been more important for Mythic.

/Ankh

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Gandelf
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Post by Gandelf »

<ankh> wrote:But that would just be wild guess...you can't build the game on guesses.

/Ankh

I agree.

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Norcott
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Post by Norcott »

Gandelf wrote:Mythic are in danger of losing the democratic majority of their customer base if they ignore what they want and take into consideration only those customers who are in a minority?
yea.. but... Warhammers coming.... perhaps Gandy and i thought out of anybody you may have picked up on this.... it could be a conspiracy to collapse Daoc so we all move to warhammer for a new beginning and the cycle starts all over again... hmmm
what say you Gandy . 8-)
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Xest
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Post by Xest »

Gandelf wrote:As for those who did not see their preference listed, we must assume that really they would be in favour of 3rd level MLs
Wrong, Gandelf, it's probably best you don't "assume" anything because your assumptions are consistently way off mark. Most people voted "My choice isn't listed" because they wanted to vote that they didn't want a 3rd line whatsoever under any circumstance and this choice wasn't available.
Gandelf wrote:Sanya's got it wrong though.
No she hasn't, you have.
Gandelf wrote:Setting aside the issue of 3rd level ML abilities for one moment... if it is a business, then surely Mythic are in danger of losing the democratic majority of their customer base if they ignore what they want and take into consideration only those customers who are in a minority?
No, because people wont quit over no 3rd ML lines, they will quit over the absolutely massive highly destructive balance shake up their proposals would cause. You'd see lots of casters quit at all the extra banelord stuff flying round, probably a lot of assassins/scouts would give up because Hunters/Rangers would be undeafeatable in stealth combat, might see classes like Thanes quit - after finally being brought upto par they become just about the only tank not to receive Banelord. Simply put, DAoC just can't take a shake up this big anymore, it's population is too small already.
Gandelf wrote:The other consideration is whether former customers might renew their subscriptions knowing that they could now choose a third way to go with ML abilities.
Yeah then there's the formal customers that might not renew because they see how screwed up game balance is again. As Ankh said it's silly to come up with mights, Jesus might declare DAoC is the work of satan so that people like you stop playing it but Mythic can't exactly balance around trying to please jesus can they.
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Post by Celedth »

You're making a mistake here Gandelf. 42% voted either "I play on classic", "None of my preferences are displayed here" or "I do not wish to answer this survey". You can’t just drop them. The classic people can be dismissed since the changes doesn't effect them, but the "None of my..." is quite likely what people who didn't like the change to their class and the change to others or that just don't like the idea of a third ML line period would vote. The poll was missing an option for "I don't like the idea of third ML line". There are a lot of other possibilities for what those could have had in mind but we have no idea what it is.

This also leads to the question whenever the percent Sanya presented is "cleaned" of the "I play on classic" and/or the "I do not wish..." people or not. In this case it's 42% who voted "None of my..." which makes the largest group people who might dislike the idea outright or have an opinion that isn't covered by the poll.. In this case it's really bad idea to make the changes; if 34% if are for, 24% against and for there are 42% who are uncertain you have a whooping 66% who either don't like the idea or whom you don't really know what they feel. No matter what it's enough that less then a third of these 42% is actually against the idea for it to be a tie between for and against. Not a good thing to make a change to a product if a quarter doesn’t like it and you have no idea what sizable portion are feeling about the issue.

Considering the talk on this board there are probably quite a few people who don't like the current version of the third ML line offered but would rather see some classes given something else. I'm one of them and I voted "None of my..." so I wouldn't be too surprised to find out other did the same. With your "recount" you're missing out on these people which make it invalid. The only thing you can make out from the data is what Sanya is saying: 34% like, 14% hate change for other classes and 10% hate their own. Since we have no idea what those 42% voted nor what the "None of my..." crowd is thinking we can't say anything about them except that we don’t know. And that is never really a good basis for business decisions…
Ankh wrote:And remember, not every player voted.
Even if one out of ten voted it would give a quite correct value of what people feel about the issue. Statistics is actually good for something :)
Gandelf wrote: Sanya's got it wrong though. Setting aside the issue of 3rd level ML abilities for one moment... if it is a business, then surely Mythic are in danger of losing the democratic majority of their customer base if they ignore what they want and take into consideration only those customers who are in a minority?
First off, it's not the majority (se above). Second the business logic is actually sound]never had it in the first place[/i].

I have to admit I belive these changes were more to not loose customers and balance the game rather then attracting old players back...

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Post by Cromcruaich »

Xest wrote:Jesus might declare DAoC is the work of satan so that people like you stop playing it but Mythic can't exactly balance around trying to please jesus can they.
Does he play? Maybe thats why the second coming has been delayed - he's to busy camping towers with his scout.


Off topic, Horner is a dick. Just wanted to get that off my chest.
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Post by Aran_Thule »

Ranger TL wrote:I SERIOUSLY bitched at them for their poll choices, trust me! Hopefully between 66% of players and 99% of TLs telling them its a BAD IDEA (TM) they may actually listen.
Why didnt they put in a 'i think a 3rd ML is a bad idea' option.
i think everyone that is able to see the big picture rather then focusing just on thier class can see this would cause a massive shake up and cause problems.
Think of warlord on rangers, the melee (most of them these days) ones would take that making them very very hard to beat, end result rangers appearing overpowered and getting nerfed.
this added with more sojourners would cripple the chances of any bow archer in the field and they would be limited to tower sniping and attacking already engaged targets.

What about sojourner on heretics, rear styles or focus spell on FZ target...

So many things that can just go wrong and spoil the balace if they did this and given most of the designers will be on WAR the effects probably would not be delt with.
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Sharkith
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Post by Sharkith »

poor old Gandelf puppy:
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Xest
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Post by Xest »

Cromcruaich wrote:Does he play? Maybe thats why the second coming has been delayed - he's to busy camping towers with his scout.


Off topic, Horner is a dick. Just wanted to get that off my chest.
No he plays a necro cos he said it makes him feel rebellious.

Who is Horner :p
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