Think you might have rose-tinted recollection there, Ovi. Legion and Galladoria raids were the subject of some horrible loot grabbiness at times. I agree that ToA made it much worse, though. It kinda became a way of life.
On the subject of how we know someone "needs" something, we don't. It all comes down to trust, but in the right climate that isn't necessarily unworkable. Most people are trustworthy and the people who aren't generally get reputations or trip themselves up so that people know not to trust them.
One essential aspect, in my view, is that the raid leader needs to be above reproach. On the arti hunts I made a point of not taking artis and very rarely even rolling for lesser items. I also made a point of sticking scrupulously to the rules we'd agreed. At times this made me feel bad, since it led to me having to refuse to do an easy encounter for someone as we passed it, but if we had waved the "you gotta earn your arti with attendance" rule sometimes and not others, it might have led to all kinds of recriminations.
I should point out that me not taking items was for the benefit of the raid but I didn't excatly suffer for it. I got a lot of help outside the arti hunt to get the items I wanted.
Pricing/claiming discussion
Ovi,Ovi wrote:That is what I feel changed after ToA. Before ToA when we had Weekend galla raids etc there was an element of trust between almost everyone in the community. ToA introduced a lot of selfishness and distrust, those who came to the realm I don't think appreciate what we used to have, and the goals still aspired to
that makes total sense its why I detest ToA and equally why I struggle to see that clinging to the honourable hope that is 'need before greed' is helping. If you have 20 people in a situation where only one will be significantly rewarded it is a depressing fact that the rewards will never equal the 'need' (or demand depending how you see this).
I agree with the principle (of need before greed) I just can't see how it works in practice. Anyway I have said enough on this.
Sharkith
edit - Peat has summed the whole thing up very neatly above to be honest, the raid leader needs to be very careful of expectations and managing them. I have ran a few raids for our guild and had a major argument in one where I failed to manage expectations. Its why I am very cautious before deciding to lead anything for the community.
I knew someone would mention rose-tintsCryn wrote:Think you might have rose-tinted recollection there, Ovi. Legion and Galladoria raids were the subject of some horrible loot grabbiness at times. I agree that ToA made it much worse, though. It kinda became a way of life.
While I was writing that post I did think about whether it was just rose tints, but overall I don't think so. You agreed that ToA made it worse, which was really what I was trying to say.
Things weren't perfect pre-toa, there have always been disagreements and selfishness, but there was definitely a clear change in the way people treated each other once after ToA hit the servers.
I think what happened was that pre-ToA the competition for the good items was so ridiculously high that many people were happy toOvi wrote:Things weren't perfect pre-toa, there have always been disagreements and selfishness, but there was definitely a clear change in the way people treated each other once after ToA hit the servers.
accept that they might never get those items. They went out in an SC suit and a small minority of people had a bit of an edge over them.
Come ToA everyone suddenly "needed" a template. The gap between an SC suit and a template widened and the edge people had was quite large. Hand-in-hand with that, the variety and accessibility of items came down so people were not as ready to accept that it was beyond their reach. The net result is a whole population competing constantly for the same items.
On the other hand, I did get to know some people a lot better through helping each other with our ToA stuff, so it wasn't all bad.
Peat Bog, Animist <Iron Wolves>
Cryn Twyn, Bard <Iron Wolves>
Tape Gob, Eldritch <Iron Wolves>
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Cryn Twyn, Bard <Iron Wolves>
Tape Gob, Eldritch <Iron Wolves>
Inventor of the Lagapult™
House 3303, Cior Barr. Come Visit.
Now playing ... WAR on Karak Eight Peaks
Irony, Runepriest <NFD>
Sable, Witch Hunter <NFD>
