Radar

[Psychiatrist]

I've played games like that, and the only time you notice it is when you got a bad ISP/connection problems.

Generally the game provider should be able to handle this.

[Ethild]

In case I described above, my target was "to far away to attack", although it was close enough on my client. Therefore (and because of the fact client always maintain melee range if you use /stick) I assume, that message was sent directly from the server. That leads to the fact, that from my point of view distance between me and player was calculated and range checked on server, not my client. At the same time, my target was attacking me in melee with no probs, so either his range check was done on his client, or server fucked it up.

The range check is server side, the "To far away to attack" message is also server issued. The effects you described can occur quite natrually without cheating, particularly if either of you is moving slowly (which is often the case with /stick), although this doesn't have to be the case. All that needs to happen (e.g. from some latency) is that the position the server thinks you are in, is not the position your client thinks you are in, whilst your attackers client has data that matches what the server thinks. This would cause him to be able to hit you, and you not him, generating the messages you got.

And about speed checkes... with normal ping, server could easily calculate how far is player able to move in a given time period, and order the client to move back it would exceed that. With a few % of tolerance to accomodate the lag, this shuld work just fine.

Yes, over a long distance, it could be done very easily. However anyone that uses some kinda speed cheat to run from their Border Keep to the Coast is pretty stupid and asking to be caught. Speed hacks come into their own when its only done over a small distance (e.g. warp 1000 units out of dd range). From the servers point of view this could happen legtimately anyway making it much harder to automatcially detect. Imagine a scenario of a running sorc who suddely changes direction, but due to a network error there is 5 seconds where his client fails to send data, he contiues on his client, then updates the server. To everyone else he just teleported 5 secs worth of running speed in the opposite direction. Cheat?

That's not entirely true anymore, modern affordable server hardware can certainly handle convincing real-time validation now.

Perhaps, but that doesn't solve the issue. The client either moves when you asks, or has to ask the server before it moves. Assuming no processing time, thats still network delay before any movement occurs, a round trip of 60-80 ms on a good day. Imaging your mouse pointer having a 60ms delay, it would be like that with movment, its not certainly something I would like to see. Sure if the server is checking all movment after the client sends it, you might be able to write some sort of rule to try catch people being norty, but as the above example demonstrates, thats no easy feat.

[Lothandar]

I've played games like that, and the only time you notice it is when you got a bad ISP/connection problems.

Generally the game provider should be able to handle this.

I told you to just check out half-life with its old netcode, I don't know about you but I don't live in france, so my ping is not 20-30 (no problem at all even if the server works out where I am). More like 10 times of that.


And no you didn't play games like that if you're saying that you were able to stand up to "LPB"s in half-life with 200 ping. Lpb= low ping bastard, generally a player with 10-50 ping.

[Xest]

Perhaps, but that doesn't solve the issue. The client either moves when you asks, or has to ask the server before it moves. Assuming no processing time, thats still network delay before any movement occurs, a round trip of 60-80 ms on a good day. Imaging your mouse pointer having a 60ms delay, it would be like that with movment, its not certainly something I would like to see. Sure if the server is checking all movment after the client sends it, you might be able to write some sort of rule to try catch people being norty, but as the above example demonstrates, thats no easy feat.

Ah sorry I misunderstood what you were talking about, I was talking mostly in regards to the fact that the server sends data for people who are like 4x out of clipping range or whatever it is, or for people who are totally out of LoS inside the central tower of a keep that doesn't have any of it's doors down as some basic examples, there's just no need to send that much data to the client anymore. Also more rigid checks on what the client has done after they'd done it, and correct it if it's an invalid movement rather than just trusting it. On top of that there's the CPU cycles to do heuristics checks for radar and checks to see if someone is nuking someone through walls and stuff like that.

[awarkle]

Most guild groups now adays use vent / teamspeak or other to comunicate information no longer is the famous

"INC INC INC INC "
" Where"
"never mind we are mezzed"
"PURGE"
"cant its down"
"never mind release guys"
"what ?"

sort of chat messages

on vent we can comunicate far far better than we can using chat programs we know if somthings going wrong or if someones nuking or added on the fight. So we can react far better also thats 8 eyes watching different perspectives while panning the camera around so when someone says incoming from behind we can all turn and attack instantly.

Ok it seems unfair to mr soloer who cant react as quickly or the group of pugs that have just left druim ligen. But thats how things move along if we didnt have ventrillo or teamspeak we would just work out another means to fight.

also i have to stop aoe dotting everything

Radaring is obvious only when you are probbly a stealther everyone remembers that minstrel destealthing and kiting those peeps".

and remember you could be rvring with someone who does radar and you would never know about it you could just think "gee this person knows where the fights are hes a good driver".

so dont just think the enemy radar there could be people who you respect who radar in your own realms.

[Elrandhir]

well even though I would like to see all those who cheat get their accounts banned, I don't care as much as some about it, because I wouldent think that those who cheats would have any fun atall, they can never say that they actually wun over anyone or whatever.

Imo any games gets ruined if you cheat, In a single player game your only cheating yourself...still that game usually gets pointless to play after you have done so.

This include cross realming to, because that about same thing really.

[HappyG]

The range check is server side, the "To far away to attack" message is also server issued. The effects you described can occur quite natrually without cheating, particularly if either of you is moving slowly (which is often the case with /stick), although this doesn't have to be the case. All that needs to happen (e.g. from some latency) is that the position the server thinks you are in, is not the position your client thinks you are in, whilst your attackers client has data that matches what the server thinks. This would cause him to be able to hit you, and you not him, generating the messages you got.

Doesn't make sense to me. If you say range check is server side, than his client would recieve that same "to far to attack" message from the server. Aparently he didn't?

[Gandelf]

I really do think they could spend their time more productively. There are many bugs that still need fixing, and classes and abilities that still need balancing. These have far greater an effect on my daily gameplay enjoyment than a small minority of users who think RPs means a bigger penis in real life, and so need to cheat to get it.

PS: If you disagree please feel free, but I would love some feedback this time instead of a random red box.

I think the priority should be to tackle cheats first. The fewer cheats there are in the game, the better. I'm not saying that bug fixing and balance issues should be ignored at the expense of finding cheats/improving the game to make cheating harder, but I think there should be a team dedicated to solving cheating problems that works independantly of other departments (if there isn't one already).

[Mojo]

I think the priority should be to tackle cheats first. The fewer cheats there are in the game, the better. I'm not saying that bug fixing and balance issues should be ignored at the expense of finding cheats/improving the game to make cheating harder, but I think there should be a team dedicated to solving cheating problems that works independantly of other departments (if there isn't one already).

I find myself agreeing with Gandelf.

[Lieva]

I find myself agreeing with Gandelf.

arghhh

ive logged onto the twiglet zone!!!