English as a universal language

[Gandelf]

Its a fact that the hate towards US in the mid-east must come from some wrongdoings, its not something they suddenly came up with.

I think a high proportion of the hate is down to religion. Extremist religious militants from the Middle-East can cite holy scripture as evidence that the "West" and in particular the USA is controlled by the devil and that they should wage a holy war to eradicate that evil from the planet's surface. Of course, we in the West tend to favour other religions and to us, it can sometimes appear as though the militant extremists are taking their holy scripture too literally. If we dare to oppose them, then we are called infidels and have death-sentences pronounced against us.

So, regardless of how much (or even how little) the US becomes involved with/intervenes in global politics, the "holy war" that certain Middle-Eastern militant organisations are waging against the West will not come to an end through peaceful negotiation. To do so would mean (in the extremists' eyes) that they were bargaining with the devil, which is something they would never do. They mean to eradicate "the devil" and nothing will prevent them from trying.

That's why in some situations, the military option is the only option for the West.

That's my opinion.

[Heta]

The hate from the middle-east towards the US is cause the US think they can order everyone else around. Take some history leasons about what they have been up to during the past 20 years in the middle-east.

[Heta]

and... is it just me or is the topic of this thread a bit strange considering the discussion in it?

[Xest]

What I said was the language is not suitable as a world language because it owes its dominance to a past that is shameful.

But again how this is any different from the mathematical system used world wide that owes it's dominance to a "shameful" greek past?

It's like I said many things owe their dominance to a shameful past, what is it about the English language that makes it more shameful to you than these other things that have an equally brutal history to them or again, do you find shame in just about everything around you?

[Heta]

Yes, we should make swedish the primary language of the world!

[Sharkith]

But again how this is any different from the mathematical system used world wide that owes it's dominance to a "shameful" greek past?

It's like I said many things owe their dominance to a shameful past, what is it about the English language that makes it more shameful to you than these other things that have an equally brutal history to them or again, do you find shame in just about everything around you?

you still spouting this same question? I thought the answer was pretty obvious Xest.

In response. Things like mathematics and philosophy owe their dominance to the fact that they are very useful. A language is not intrinsically more useful than another language. In fact there are other languages that would be much more useful and much better than English. English owes its dominance purely to the history of the British empire and there is nothing intrinsic in the language that makes it superior.

Once more to cite ad nauseum just because there is a culture of shame does not mean you are bound to feel personally ashamed - try to get the point that your not that important on the scheme of things and that these things have a life of their own outside of us.... its really not that hard to get you know.

[Heta]

Yes, Spanish, French and Portugese was spread over the world with the message of peace love and harmoy.

[Xest]

In response. Things like mathematics and philosophy owe their dominance to the fact that they are very useful. A language is not intrinsically more useful than another language. In fact there are other languages that would be much more useful and much better than English. English owes its dominance purely to the history of the British empire and there is nothing intrinsic in the language that makes it superior.

The mathematical system we use is the greek/arab one, it isn't the only mathematical system there is. Numeral systems are the same, some countries historically used duodecimal, octal and other numbering systems. Perhaps you weren't aware that there isn't just one "mathematics", or perhaps you were being purposely ignorant for the sake of your argument?

Many mathematical symbols and syntax have their origins in the greek/arab system that was spread through greek dominance. With more modern mathematics, such as calculus which came about long after Alexanders empire we often see different notations, for example with integration we have Leibniz notation, box notation and dot notation. It's much more confusing for people having to deal with different notations that mean the same thing - it's the same situation with language on a bigger scale.

By the way, I'm guessing you also see a lot of shame in the Spanish language too right?

[Ovi]

you still spouting this same question? I thought the answer was pretty obvious Xest.

In response. Things like mathematics and philosophy owe their dominance to the fact that they are very useful. A language is not intrinsically more useful than another language. In fact there are other languages that would be much more useful and much better than English. English owes its dominance purely to the history of the British empire and there is nothing intrinsic in the language that makes it superior.

Once more to cite ad nauseum just because there is a culture of shame does not mean you are bound to feel personally ashamed - try to get the point that your not that important on the scheme of things and that these things have a life of their own outside of us.... its really not that hard to get you know.

Given your insistence to associate shame to actions which were not shameful at the time, please provide an example of another language that is even half as widespread as English and does not have any similar associations of shame.

If "A language is not intrinsically more useful than another language.", how can "In fact there are other languages that would be much more useful and much better than English." also be true?

I think you are possibly right in that there are more useful languages, but I don't think that they have a significant advantage, and whether those advantages outweigh the fact that English is more widespread is dabatable at best.

I am still to be convinced that there is, and should be, a "culture of shame" associated with the English language, especially from the time of the British Empire. I think you would have more luck convincing me that the English Language has shameful associations from the rescent actions of the US.

At the time of the British Empire other Imperial empires were doing just as bad things, and in many cases worse. Whilst that does make the actions right, it does not make them shameful.

[Gandelf]

Just to quote an example of how negotiation doesn't always work...

Looking back once more at WWII (or just before it), we saw the UK Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain negotiating with Hitler. We've all seen that film footage of a triumphant Chamberlain outside 10 Downing Street, waving a piece of paper signed by Hitler, saying that he would not invade Poland. But the piece of paper meant nothing, because soon afterwards Hitler and the Nazis invaded Poland anyway. Shortly afterwards, war was declared.

In the end, the military option was the only option. It was the option that eventually brought peace in Europe. Aggressive regimes/dictatorships are so fanatical that they will do what they want anyway, no matter how much we try to negotiate or bargain with them. That's why I believe Middle-Eastern militant extremists will never stop and it's why the military option is the only option that has a realistic chance of ensuring peace in the long-term.

History has shown this to be the case in the past. I've no reason to believe that it won't be the case in the future.