Dragon Respec stones, Goa's Responce

Penlid · Post by **Penlid** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:53 pm

Fair point, i changed my mind and just taking a breif break from all servers.

Raew · Post by **Raew** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:18 pm

Really don't understand why you call EU GM's rude.

Every time I've been in contact with the GM's, they've been very polite and helpful.

Heta · Post by **Heta** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:40 pm

Its more fun that way

Sharkith · Post by **Sharkith** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:46 pm

it would be more fun if we could poke them too!

We want a /poke command!!!

Requiel · Post by **Requiel** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:47 pm

Xest wrote:I think it's the fact that Requiel refuses to grant something that's clearly intended to be a 100% guaranteed drop that's the problem. If it's meant to be guaranteed then it should be awarded, his excuses for not awarding it are extremely weak - as said already if the code doesn't follow the design docs the code is wrong and at fault and not the docs. As I also said if someone made a typo in the docs sure you can have a meeting or informal discussion to rectify the docs and ensure the change to the docs is what's accurate and intended but the code should never be changed until the docs are amended.

An incorrect assumption, as I have already explained.

Xest wrote:Tare GOA can change portions of the game, a massive amount of DAoC and just about every MMOGs code is seperated out to scripts, MMOGs require more content than most games so having a sensible level of seperation between code and content means a company can hire people to work on content without either needing to be coders or needing to interrupt the coding team so I assure there's a lot that GOA could change - and as past incidents have shown, there's a lot GOA can accidently change. Changing the design docs because of a code fault is a bad idea - as someone mentioned if PBAE was accidently set to too high damage and a lot of recoding was require to fix it do you honestly think the design docs should be changed to suit the code?

Please give me at least one example of a situation where you know 100% that Goa have broken or misimplemented the game code supplied by Mythic. You keep bringing this up as evidence of Goa incompetance, however I have yet to see you back it up. As you are not privy to the testing and patching process or the various communications between Goa and Mythic I am extremely curious as to how you can be so sure that Goa have broken code that was intact when it was sent by Mythic. Either back it up or please stop with the baseless accusations.

Xest wrote:It's common good practice in game development to ensure seperation of code from content nowadays, it's also common good practice to follow design docs and if something isn't following the docs to rectify it. As I've said already the correct response from Requiel should've been to award the stones and to report the issue as a bug - when it's clear that the intention is that the stones should ALWAYS drop which clearly is the intention here the customer shouldn't be the one to have to suffer the penalties. It cannot be argued that the dragon isn't intended to drop the stones every single time - that that is intended is unquestionable due to the docs and the official CSR response. It could be argued that even though that is the intention that Requiel doesn't have to grant the stones but that is a weak argument because again, the customer should never be penalised for a game bug when the bug isn't so serious that it hurts the game. Those are the facts, period.

And again it isn't a bug. I have explained this in a number of different ways. I see no profit in repeating them again. Your 'facts' are simply wrong.

Penlid · Post by **Penlid** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:46 pm

Requiel wrote:Your 'facts' are simply wrong.

How can evidence from the people who MAKE the game be wrong?

Cuchuluhain · Post by **Cuchuluhain** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:49 am

the evidence from 'the people who make the game'

is coming from *drum roll*

CSRs

NOT people who have actual, you know, access to the flaming code.

Its basically, paid helpers, who you know, will tell you 'working as intended' because thats what Mythic pay them to tell you .

So on one side you have a GM, who has access to the code base and any changes made to it (some have been, eg custom events), on the other hand you have the equivalent to a monkey on a phone reading from a script.

Guess which one Im going to believe?

Post by **Xest** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:53 am

An incorrect assumption, as I have already explained.

Erm, it's not an assumption, as shown - both Mythic and the patch notes prove that, the design is that it's clearly 100% drop.

Please give me at least one example of a situation where you know 100% that Goa have broken or misimplemented the game code supplied by Mythic. You keep bringing this up as evidence of Goa incompetance, however I have yet to see you back it up. As you are not privy to the testing and patching process or the various communications between Goa and Mythic I am extremely curious as to how you can be so sure that Goa have broken code that was intact when it was sent by Mythic. Either back it up or please stop with the baseless accusations.

Well I remember the old spec AF bug being one of the more prominent, as to how I know, well Kemor admitting that Animist DD bomber delves being too low after debuff on the euro servers as a euro only issue was a pretty good one too. Fact is there's been SO many euro only bugs that it's just too much of a coincidence that they only occur on the euro servers. The problem is the euro only bugs range from client bugs, to content bugs, to billing bugs, to website bugs, to xml bugs - are you seriously claiming Mythic is reponsible for all of them? I've played DAoC long enough to realise that when GOA blame Mythic, even when there's been proof otherwise and Mythic themselves have stated otherwise. I'm not saying Mythic haven't screwed up but GOA do have a track record of blaming everyone else - game issues, they blame mythic, connection issues they blame opentransit, billing issues they blame their billing company. If it was all true why is only GOA plagued with all these issues when countless over services using the same suppliers as GOA do never suffer the problems GOA do? If it was now and again fair enough but GOA seem to blame someone else for something every few weeks.

GReaper · Post by **GReaper** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:06 am

Interesting thread!

I'm curious to know what an official Mythic answer for this would be, so I've posted the following question on the Mythic feedback form:

The Hibernia/Prydwen forums have been discussing a problem with a recent dragon raid, the realm respec stones didn't drop! Our European GM claims that although theres a very high chance, it isn't a 100% chance that the respec stones will drop. Is this true, or is this a bug and should we be entitled to get our respec stones?

http://www.pryd.net/showthread.php?t=2595

Thanks!

If more people would use the feedback form and ask similar questions, an official response through a grab bag is more likely. Although this would mean waiting for an entire week to see the answer (if its even included), at least a reply would be given from the people who created the game and will be able to tell us the way its intended. If everyone uses the form then you might get an answer!

I personally consider this either a coding error (there should be a 100% chance if thats the way its intended), or a documentation error (the chance of it not dropping should be mentioned!). It would've been much easier for a GM to understand that its intended to be a guaranteed drop and give the respec stones, even though it may be impossible to make it guaranteed.

Penlid · Post by **Penlid** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:07 am

Cuchuluhain wrote:NOT people who have actual, you know, access to the flaming code.

I never said they had access to the code, in fact! Only the developers can probably read the code. So that CSR would have gone away and checked. Like i said as well MYTHIC MAKE THE GAME!!!!! GoA get it translate it and patch it, it's the same, so what Mythic says is the real deal, believe it or not.