Plat/PLing for cash... Can it be stopped?

[Luz]

Ehm, not from where I am sitting I didn't

It was sarcasm!


But without sarcasm :
thanks for paying attention to forums and engaging in discussion Requiel !

[Arcsalin]

It was sarcasm!


But without sarcasm :
thanks for paying attention to forums and engaging in discussion Requiel !

Mmmmk xD

[Cryn]

Personally I think it's wrong, the time you put into a game should be the deciding factor in what you get out of it.

This hits the nail on the head, for me. The reason what you get out should be decided by time, is because ALL you should need to get out of a game is fun. If you could measure fun/hour, that would be the success measure for a MMORPG.

Players measure themselves by anything but fun in DAoC, it seems. You've got XP, RP, ML, CL, plats and stats to tell you whether you are "succeeding". I think the level progression paradigm of gameplay encourages this view and is there to distract people from considering whether they are enjoying the game.

This view is not as cynical as it might sound. I don't think anyone conciously sets out to mislead the players]For my two penneth - solo PvE or even group PvE is boring eventually, as there is not enough room for variation. The game is always going to be limited in terms of places to go and level to xp and there is not a lot anyone can do about it. That's why first or second time round the grind to level 50 is ok but after that you lose a bit of interest and want to do it faster.[/QUOTE]

Not sure how many people will realise the significance of this being said by Beli. Ever since I've known him, despite his introduction from Isletha being as someone "wanting to get more groups", he's always been someone who doesn't complain and who chips away at levels solo if necessary (i.e. forced by available time, etc).

Not to say he doesn't RvR, which he has done more and more in recent times, but for him to make this comment about PvE says a lot to me. Specifically, it says "it's boring if you repeat it often enough". If we accept that then we really need to start thinking how many times is "often enough" for people without Beli's patience.

[Genedril]

Fun is what you make it Cryn, everyone finds different things fun.

Some peoples idea of bliss is getting 8 lvl 50's & making sure they're all ml10 & CL5 - it makes them feel as complete as there characters are; Some people want to be RR10+ & insist that the end game of DAoC is FG RvR; some people want to group up with mates & just have a laugh; some people want to do FG RvR & just be competitive & improve themselves & their groups performance (this is where I sit - though I normally have a laugh doing it); some people want to work out how the can become an octopus, run 6 accounts on 3 pcs & thereby do what should be a tricky group encounter on their own.

They're all different challenges & people find fun in them - not everyone subscribes to the must get to 'x' milestone.

PvE is 'go hit a mob till you or it dies' 90% of the time. It's not exciting, but what makes it is the other players. After all, what's the point in playing a MMORPG if you don't want to interact, at some level, with the other players.

[Cryn]

[quote="Genedril"]Some peoples idea of bliss is getting 8 lvl 50's & making sure they're all ml10 & CL5 - it makes them feel as complete as there characters are]

Possibly, but even if that is true, it's clear the game supports the former much better than the latter. This is why we end up with people paying for PL and such - if you enjoy PvE you can go straight into it and do it to your heart's content, if you enjoy RvR you STILL have to do masses of PvE every time you want to try a new class.

A game that fully supported both play preferences would not be hard to achieve and would encourage both types of players to stay and enjoy themselves. The reasons not to do it from a developer's perspective cannot be in the players' interest (though they can be in the game's interest, if you count forcing RvRers to PvE their characters to keep population levels up).

[Ovi]

Possibly, but even if that is true, it's clear the game supports the former much better than the latter. This is why we end up with people paying for PL and such - if you enjoy PvE you can go straight into it and do it to your heart's content, if you enjoy RvR you STILL have to do masses of PvE every time you want to try a new class.

A game that fully supported both play preferences would not be hard to achieve and would encourage both types of players to stay and enjoy themselves. The reasons not to do it from a developer's perspective cannot be in the players' interest (though they can be in the game's interest, if you count forcing RvRers to PvE their characters to keep population levels up).

That's not as true as it once was since the changes to the BGs, theoretically it is now possible to level in, albeit a limited form, RvR.

It's not ideal, but it was a step in the right direction.

[Gandelf]

The mistake a lot of people are making in this thread is using their own personal values as the basis by which they judge what other players want.

For example, a lot of people are assuming that grouping with other players is more fun than playing solo. It is highly likely that there are players who would rather go it alone, who are turned off by the thought of working with a group of people. There is probably a whole spectrum of opinion on this issue, ranging from those who definitely hate grouping, to those who can't standing being alone in the game. It is a mistake to assume that what we individually find more important or enjoyable in the game, is exactly what other individuals find important or enjoyable.

As the great comic Benny Hill once said, "When you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME!"

[Gandelf]

Shame there wasnt a realm wide channel that you could ask for help on.

Restrict shouts to every 3 mins or so, or do like the old muds did - you had a kind of power bar and if you shouted it went down. The amount of power and the regen time was based on your level (but here it could be based on in guild rank, level, realmrank etc) so you got more frequent shouts if you were higher.

What about this suggestion:-

What if there was a special area in the game, which you could get to by porting, that was called something like the "waiting room". If you were a player in search of finding other players, then you would port there from your house porter, or whatever. In the waiting room you would meet other players who were in search of other players to group with. Once you'd sorted your group of players in the waiting room, then you could all port out to wherever you wanted to go to, maybe the Frontiers, Catacombs, some other instance etc. This would save hanging around places like Ligen, where you may or may not be successful in finding a group.

Also, in the social screen of the game interface, there could be a panel that would list how many players were already in the waiting room and their names, so you could judge whether it was worthwhile porting to the waiting room. Perhaps the waiting room could also contain "amusements" a bit like the training zones for new players, so that you could practise your styles on dummies etc. to pass the time away while you wait for other players to port to the room?

[Ovi]

Wow has a global lfg channel, which can be useful if you don't mind a PuG and want to do a specific instance.

There are also grouping stones (forget the real name) by each instance, which basically put people into groups when the right people click the stones. I've never used them, but the idea is good if the instances are popular enough, it also has the potential for cross-realm instance groups!!

[Xest]

That's not as true as it once was since the changes to the BGs, theoretically it is now possible to level in, albeit a limited form, RvR.

It's not ideal, but it was a step in the right direction.

Yeah, been like that a while got to 44 on my BD in BGs, wouldn't have been easy but could've finished off in real RvR by leeching in zergs etc. Friend got to 50 on his VW and Warlock entirely in RvR, although the VW was at NF release and he was pouring oil and catapulting zergs with his lvl20 VW which gave insane XP before they fixed that at NF release, that alone took him to about lvl38 after a day or two.