Warning -

[Kallima]

Imo we should do the same with people who ruins raids

/Ankh

<grins> nice one Ankh

[Xcerus]

You know no one has ever actually asked me what happend or why .... strange that tbh.

[Thandruil]

Aye name and shame for teh win - Theifs are evul
- Raid leaders are good tho
/hug Bugzy good idea imo

Yip, if a person is "brave" enough to steal from fellow hibbies, then he shouldn't mind being shamed here.

So what happened, when did it happen, how did it happen, with what did it happen, to whom did it happen, what actions were taken, and so on. Give all details imo

[Kallima]

You know no one has ever actually asked me what happend or why .... strange that tbh.

I was there for EoY raid, I was there for ML2, I didn't need to ask. One question though. ChildofKhain is your alt as is Zcerus?

[Lenah]

Here we have it coming again!

Have a moment and look back into the history, and tell me if you can find even 1 good thing coming out by pointing fingers. Found any?

These kinda threads are perfect example how we can furthermore break up the community spirit of this fine server/mmorpg. Its totally immature to even hope that anything even remotely like this, would ever really help anything or anyone : When you point a blame on someone for certain reaons, its can still be right and just (even then it most likely doesn't help at all), but brining it up to the crowd that 1. wasn't there 2. dont have a clue 3. wants to burn all the witches, you actually only cause havoc and arguement. This is VERY clearly shown around the past GOV - incidents. What did we gain from that? Absofregginlutely nothing.

When anyone leading, or taking part in a big social even such as raid, ther is ALWAYS the change that a evil lurker ends up there aswell, and there is no way to avoid this to happen. But its in the responsibility of the leader of the social event to use all possible means that these individuals cannot get into position where there even IS a reason to blame them. You can use many different ways to obtain hold carry and share loot (the most common topic), its totally up to you to make sure things go the way they should go and everyone is aware of the plans. Most of the times if someone fools around and ruins a raid, there is a logical explanation for it (mostly bad leading), that makes it impossible to blame the individual. If you are not up to dealing with these always present risks DO NOT LEAD ANY RAIDS. And if you do, you still have absolutely no right to blame other people for your own mistakes.

And if the RARE ocassion comes, that some intentionally starts to ruin the fun of the others, action is required. There is a way of reporting stealers to GOA and they pretty easily give suspensions (I know I've reported a dozen). Action is also required on the root level, where it actually hapens, _THIS ACTION MUST BE MATURE_, else you become just as bad. Let his GM's know, no GM likes a bad member => bad name for the guild. If he ruined intentionally a raid, just /bg remove target and type small announcement that the asshat was thrown out, do you REALLY think your raid is unique and the very only one? Hunred of similar is coming anyway, and you can always try again later, but by getting pissed pointing fingers and overacting the blame you only lower yourself.

Also, very importantly : Brining this kind of events out from the situation to the public forums you gain absolutely nothing constructive. When 900 people read the post and answer without knowing what REALLY hapenned, its clear it causes arguement and divides people to camps against each other. Is that what you're really looking for? The crowd is ALWAYS unjust and unfair, they dont even have to know the guy to stone him to death, and you as (supposedly) mature raid leader, should know to avoid overshooting. Also brining individual for crowd to stone, totally removes the chance that this individual could apoplogy (and that it would be heard) and with black list he could never again attempt to fix his behavior, GREAT result isn't it?

Now when I think of it a bit further. Who are you anyway? By the record you got 1 public raid on your belt, and 1 coming. And you're already blaming people even tho (Alexandrinus) nothing has even yet hapenned? Such Albionism / Freddys Housingishm. If you want to have even slightest credibility among the wellknown raidleader names of prydwen / hibernia then omg please even list your own toons!!

I say anyone who takes the 1st stone and starts to bring black list type of threads up to prydwen net, should be /bg removed and casted back to what ever hole they crawled out from. They're the real trouble makers. We cannot stop all kind of people doing toons on pry/hib, we cannot choose the people joining our raid. We can do our best to avoid situations where its possible to fuck up, but still its impossible to totally avoid mistakes. Still we can work them out with mature ways. I know I can, and if I can everyone can if they just put the same effort to it.

My love to Hibernia.
Yours, Lenah

[Ankh Morpork]

Here we have it coming again!

Have a moment and look back into the history, and tell me if you can find even 1 good thing coming out by pointing fingers. Found any?

well...cos...cos its fun?

Nah, but honestly...I'd rather know who I can trust in advance than find it out the hard way..

Edit: Ofcourse, hearing both sides version of what happened is a must!

/Ankh

[Lenah]

You know no one has ever actually asked me what happend or why .... strange that tbh.

No one ever will mate, they never do...



Thandruil
After all you and your guild has cone trough, you should know better not to start a wich hunt. You know what I speak of.

Ankh
Trust no one, except me. You cant trust the crowd, u can trust the leadership tho.

[Briannon]

Here we have it coming again!

Have a moment and look back into the history, and tell me if you can find even 1 good thing coming out by pointing fingers. Found any?

These kinda threads are perfect example how we can furthermore break up the community spirit of this fine server/mmorpg. Its totally immature to even hope that anything even remotely like this, would ever really help anything or anyone : When you point a blame on someone for certain reaons, its can still be right and just (even then it most likely doesn't help at all), but brining it up to the crowd that 1. wasn't there 2. dont have a clue 3. wants to burn all the witches, you actually only cause havoc and arguement. This is VERY clearly shown around the past GOV - incidents. What did we gain from that? Absofregginlutely nothing.

When anyone leading, or taking part in a big social even such as raid, ther is ALWAYS the change that a evil lurker ends up there aswell, and there is no way to avoid this to happen. But its in the responsibility of the leader of the social event to use all possible means that these individuals cannot get into position where there even IS a reason to blame them. You can use many different ways to obtain hold carry and share loot (the most common topic), its totally up to you to make sure things go the way they should go and everyone is aware of the plans. Most of the times if someone fools around and ruins a raid, there is a logical explanation for it (mostly bad leading), that makes it impossible to blame the individual. If you are not up to dealing with these always present risks DO NOT LEAD ANY RAIDS. And if you do, you still have absolutely no right to blame other people for your own mistakes.

And if the RARE ocassion comes, that some intentionally starts to ruin the fun of the others, action is required. There is a way of reporting stealers to GOA and they pretty easily give suspensions (I know I've reported a dozen). Action is also required on the root level, where it actually hapens, _THIS ACTION MUST BE MATURE_, else you become just as bad. Let his GM's know, no GM likes a bad member => bad name for the guild. If he ruined intentionally a raid, just /bg remove target and type small announcement that the asshat was thrown out, do you REALLY think your raid is unique and the very only one? Hunred of similar is coming anyway, and you can always try again later, but by getting pissed pointing fingers and overacting the blame you only lower yourself.

Also, very importantly : Brining this kind of events out from the situation to the public forums you gain absolutely nothing constructive. When 900 people read the post and answer without knowing what REALLY hapenned, its clear it causes arguement and divides people to camps against each other. Is that what you're really looking for? The crowd is ALWAYS unjust and unfair, they dont even have to know the guy to stone him to death, and you as (supposedly) mature raid leader, should know to avoid overshooting. Also brining individual for crowd to stone, totally removes the chance that this individual could apoplogy (and that it would be heard) and with black list he could never again attempt to fix his behavior, GREAT result isn't it?

Now when I think of it a bit further. Who are you anyway? By the record you got 1 public raid on your belt, and 1 coming. And you're already blaming people even tho (Alexandrinus) nothing has even yet hapenned? Such Albionism / Freddys Housingishm. If you want to have even slightest credibility among the wellknown raidleader names of prydwen / hibernia then omg please even list your own toons!!

I say anyone who takes the 1st stone and starts to bring black list type of threads up to prydwen net, should be /bg removed and casted back to what ever hole they crawled out from. They're the real trouble makers. We cannot stop all kind of people doing toons on pry/hib, we cannot choose the people joining our raid. We can do our best to avoid situations where its possible to fuck up, but still its impossible to totally avoid mistakes. Still we can work them out with mature ways. I know I can, and if I can everyone can if they just put the same effort to it.

My love to Hibernia.
Yours, Lenah

TBH Lenah, this could also be seen to be a bit of an over-reaction by some posters to this forum so don't be surprised if you get a few angry posts in response.

Not from me though

I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, but I can't help but have a slightly bad feeling about what's underlying this.

I'm almost getting a big sense of deja vu here.

[Gamblor]

[quote="Bugzy"]To those of you who like to be thiefs in Hib and like to mess about with the people of hib.

I, myself, will not tollerate it. So i'm gonna start black-listing you little blighters from my raids.

I hope other raid leaders follow suit

No names, just a warning ]

THis over the Gov from last night ?

I wasn't there, was on a Ml1 raid where i ld'd 8 times before giving up :/

[Lenah]

Briannon.

I'm not suprised at all =) The crowd takes the stone at me becouse of the post =) it just furthermore underlines my point hehe ... and yes, this has hapenned too many times before, dejavu every time it comes to a topic ...

I'm just expressing my love to the community.