Dark Age of Interruptalot and other musings
I dont believe that casters and tanks are 100% balanced in the usual rvr. In 8vs8 people learned to adapt, but is being able to adapt balanced?
The main issue with all this is that due to toa bonuses the casters advantage was greatly increased. In comparison the tanks dmg output was also upped, but that still leaves the basics from caster vs tanks unadressed. Their improved range and dmg means you have less chance reaching them to do your improved dmg.
All of this is even worse with casters having CC tools and stuff such as lifetapping. The worst being lifetap moc, which as tank just cannot be survived. (in a 1vs1 or few vs few situation, and for stealthers)
Changes could be to reduce the casters utility, choose between dmg or utility somehow. Or you can improve all non ranged classes to get more resists. (the main tanks boost is laughable atm, seeing how aom easily overtakes effectiveness).
One thing I would vote for is making moc negate lifetap abilities. You can do dmg, but you cant regain life while doing that. Makes the skill no less good for the intended purposes, but lessens the iwin factor.
Another thing I wonder about is why I see alb casters do 700-800 dmg in casting with spells that are lower or the same in delve as hib/mid casters. On my all 25+ resi warden with a full set of resist buffs I still get hit for well over 650 dmg by casters without getting a debuff on me. Havent seen hib/mid casters do that much outside bolts, so how does this work?
The main issue with all this is that due to toa bonuses the casters advantage was greatly increased. In comparison the tanks dmg output was also upped, but that still leaves the basics from caster vs tanks unadressed. Their improved range and dmg means you have less chance reaching them to do your improved dmg.
All of this is even worse with casters having CC tools and stuff such as lifetapping. The worst being lifetap moc, which as tank just cannot be survived. (in a 1vs1 or few vs few situation, and for stealthers)
Changes could be to reduce the casters utility, choose between dmg or utility somehow. Or you can improve all non ranged classes to get more resists. (the main tanks boost is laughable atm, seeing how aom easily overtakes effectiveness).
One thing I would vote for is making moc negate lifetap abilities. You can do dmg, but you cant regain life while doing that. Makes the skill no less good for the intended purposes, but lessens the iwin factor.
Another thing I wonder about is why I see alb casters do 700-800 dmg in casting with spells that are lower or the same in delve as hib/mid casters. On my all 25+ resi warden with a full set of resist buffs I still get hit for well over 650 dmg by casters without getting a debuff on me. Havent seen hib/mid casters do that much outside bolts, so how does this work?
US Classic (all realms) & Lance/Alb & Limors
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Lieva
- Emerald Rider
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:00 am
- Location: On the redundancy train to freedom :D
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ok right
utopia daoc ala nana
(this is long so sorry)
(please note this is purely from a caster pov so please feel free to critasise based on that - the tanks however may wish to just /point /laugh
- also all is IMO!)
As i said. The reason casters use stun/root so much is they cannot cast unless they have high RR and/or speed increases. So.
General Class Changes
Get rid of Caster Interrupts or make it trainable so the interrupts are lessoned to at least 80% non-interrupt.
Remove caster stun/root. With the decrease in interrupts it is not required.
Give ALL casters/healers a life tap. Dont make it instant or a stupid amount (max 30%?) and make it useable every 20mins.
Remove Druidic buffs and make them alchemist potions (multi-buff pots or single-buff pots but the use timer on them should be 0) this will allow the druids to be able to spec heal/pet insted of being a glorified buff bot!
Remove AOE mezz/stun/root. Make the single Mezzes longer and less resistable. AOE mezz tends to determine the outcome of the battle so without it - would be down to skill.(hopefully)
rvr changes
Let everyone have a flag. It should be one of the following.
PVE - unable to attack. I personally dont agree with killing people who are xping on the frountier - and no .. i dont agree with 'its their fault for being there in a dangerous zone' argument.
SOLO - Only solo players (they must be flagged as solo for at least 15mins) can attack this player
GROUP - Only grouped players can attack this player (again with the 15mins)
----
remove those damn water spots until they figure out how to make people get nuked within water AND i recommend the following.
Change the water.
Make some parts of the frountier covered with water - other covered with oil.
I have never understood how a fireball (magicall or otherwise) can survive in water. Surely it should hiss and fizzle out. So i proppse the following.
If in water adjust resist/damage accordingly.
e.g a firewizzy would do half damage as his firebolts would loose power.
a ice thurg would have double damage as his ice attacks would get stronger in the water.
If in Oil etc..
Fire wizzy gets double - ice gets half.
TOA/Catacombs/Darkness Rising/shrouded isles/homelands
Toa...
The place everyone loves to hate.
Make all master level abilities available at level one.
Then make the rest of the master levels an increase on the abilties.
Also - make a change to the trials. If you complete all 10 Trials you should be ml10. You could however opt out of the trials and just xp it in RvR. (the xp gained through the trials should be equivalent to the xp needed in rvr)
i.e Bodyguard would be available at level 1 but until you are master level 10 you will not have its full potential.
Sort of like speccing shield. The more points you put in shield the better you block.
obviously group port/merchant summon etc would be available at level 1 also
catacombs. - someone mentioned making the mobs equivalent to the classes you have. I dont need to add to that as its a fine idea
Remove those darn main-dungeon instances..
blooming annoying.. Make em harder with better drops and available for more than 8 people..
Darkness Rising. Same with TOA - Why be CL5 just for a funky horse. The abilitys sure as hell arnt worth it.
When you complete crom you should BE CL5. Or have the option to xp (this is already there but its longer xping it i think? should be the same xp gained during the quests)
Shrouded Isles.. That place makes me snore. Not sure why as its a good place but seriously... Inhabit the mobs abit better (i.e why does it take 10min running from a town before i get attacked?)
Hometowns - as with catacombs/toa/shrouded isles and DR - change the drops so they are in line with all the expansions...
so what ya think
utopia daoc ala nana
(this is long so sorry)(please note this is purely from a caster pov so please feel free to critasise based on that - the tanks however may wish to just /point /laugh
- also all is IMO!)As i said. The reason casters use stun/root so much is they cannot cast unless they have high RR and/or speed increases. So.
General Class Changes
Get rid of Caster Interrupts or make it trainable so the interrupts are lessoned to at least 80% non-interrupt.
Remove caster stun/root. With the decrease in interrupts it is not required.
Give ALL casters/healers a life tap. Dont make it instant or a stupid amount (max 30%?) and make it useable every 20mins.
Remove Druidic buffs and make them alchemist potions (multi-buff pots or single-buff pots but the use timer on them should be 0) this will allow the druids to be able to spec heal/pet insted of being a glorified buff bot!
Remove AOE mezz/stun/root. Make the single Mezzes longer and less resistable. AOE mezz tends to determine the outcome of the battle so without it - would be down to skill.(hopefully)
rvr changes
Let everyone have a flag. It should be one of the following.
PVE - unable to attack. I personally dont agree with killing people who are xping on the frountier - and no .. i dont agree with 'its their fault for being there in a dangerous zone' argument.
SOLO - Only solo players (they must be flagged as solo for at least 15mins) can attack this player
GROUP - Only grouped players can attack this player (again with the 15mins)
----
remove those damn water spots until they figure out how to make people get nuked within water AND i recommend the following.
Change the water.
Make some parts of the frountier covered with water - other covered with oil.
I have never understood how a fireball (magicall or otherwise) can survive in water. Surely it should hiss and fizzle out. So i proppse the following.
If in water adjust resist/damage accordingly.
e.g a firewizzy would do half damage as his firebolts would loose power.
a ice thurg would have double damage as his ice attacks would get stronger in the water.
If in Oil etc..
Fire wizzy gets double - ice gets half.
TOA/Catacombs/Darkness Rising/shrouded isles/homelands
Toa...
The place everyone loves to hate.
Make all master level abilities available at level one.
Then make the rest of the master levels an increase on the abilties.
Also - make a change to the trials. If you complete all 10 Trials you should be ml10. You could however opt out of the trials and just xp it in RvR. (the xp gained through the trials should be equivalent to the xp needed in rvr)
i.e Bodyguard would be available at level 1 but until you are master level 10 you will not have its full potential.
Sort of like speccing shield. The more points you put in shield the better you block.
obviously group port/merchant summon etc would be available at level 1 also
catacombs. - someone mentioned making the mobs equivalent to the classes you have. I dont need to add to that as its a fine idea
Remove those darn main-dungeon instances..
blooming annoying.. Make em harder with better drops and available for more than 8 people..
Darkness Rising. Same with TOA - Why be CL5 just for a funky horse. The abilitys sure as hell arnt worth it.
When you complete crom you should BE CL5. Or have the option to xp (this is already there but its longer xping it i think? should be the same xp gained during the quests)
Shrouded Isles.. That place makes me snore. Not sure why as its a good place but seriously... Inhabit the mobs abit better (i.e why does it take 10min running from a town before i get attacked?)
Hometowns - as with catacombs/toa/shrouded isles and DR - change the drops so they are in line with all the expansions...
so what ya think
Lievaordiea x Eldritch
Peonchants x Enchanter
Hibernia
Peonchants x Enchanter
Hibernia
I will staunchly defend the right of my Eldritch (and other Hib casters who have it) to continue to be able to use a stun spell. It should not be removed, because it's one way in which it makes up for the superior damage that Alb casters get.
Mythic have already given way to the Albs by giving them a Nearsight, but they gave nothing in return to comparative Hib casters.
It's fair to say that Hibs probably make the fastest casters of all, due to their higher starting Dex, but they don't compare with Albs' damage who have better intelligence with the Avalonians.
So, if they removed stun, they would have make major changes to all casters, otherwise the game would be unbalanced.
Stun is also very important in PvE, for example when soloing in dungeons, where you're only a few feet away from a monster. Being able to stun then nuke them before they can get to you is a proven method of increasing your chances to stay alive. This is also the case when two mobs decide to attack... stunning one of them allows you to tackle the other as it is incoming, then you can take out the other.
So, don't get rid of the stun. It's too important for Hib casters to lose!
Mythic have already given way to the Albs by giving them a Nearsight, but they gave nothing in return to comparative Hib casters.
It's fair to say that Hibs probably make the fastest casters of all, due to their higher starting Dex, but they don't compare with Albs' damage who have better intelligence with the Avalonians.
So, if they removed stun, they would have make major changes to all casters, otherwise the game would be unbalanced.
Stun is also very important in PvE, for example when soloing in dungeons, where you're only a few feet away from a monster. Being able to stun then nuke them before they can get to you is a proven method of increasing your chances to stay alive. This is also the case when two mobs decide to attack... stunning one of them allows you to tackle the other as it is incoming, then you can take out the other.
So, don't get rid of the stun. It's too important for Hib casters to lose!
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Lieva
- Emerald Rider
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:00 am
- Location: On the redundancy train to freedom :D
- Contact:
but the point is..
why do you stun?
because you are unable to cast when you are being hit.
With the interrupts being lessoned why would you need to stun?
You could just continue to nuke
and the Lifetap would work with any 'emergancys'
as for croud control. You're a damage dealer. bards are crowd controllers they play the nice songs to enchant them
however i spose a low root/polymorph would be acceptable ;p
why do you stun?
because you are unable to cast when you are being hit.
With the interrupts being lessoned why would you need to stun?
You could just continue to nuke
and the Lifetap would work with any 'emergancys'
as for croud control. You're a damage dealer. bards are crowd controllers
they play the nice songs to enchant them however i spose a low root/polymorph would be acceptable ;p
Lievaordiea x Eldritch
Peonchants x Enchanter
Hibernia
Peonchants x Enchanter
Hibernia
I stun because I'm used to it. It's part of my playing style.... stun first, then nuke and perhaps throw in an instant str/con.
I think players have possibly given Mythic rantings about castable stun for as many years as the game as been played. I think that if Mythic really thought it was too overpowered that they would have removed it by now.
For stun to be removed, interruption would have to be negated virtually altogether. So, it's a matter of which is better... for interruption to continue as it was intended when the game first came out (not as it is now), or remove interruption and stun altogether. I'm sure if the latter happened, melée classes would be the first to moan when casters no longer had the need to train MoC because they could nuke whilst being ganked. It would be worse, because there would be no waiting for the MoC timer to come up!
Then of course, interruptions from other spells would no longer have any affect... just imagine the outcome of that! The caster that could do the most damage would probably win... which plays right into the hands of the Avalonians with their better intelligence! Aye, Hibs might be able to cast a fraction faster, but more intelligence will win out against more dexterity if there's no interruption.
The problem, as I see it, is too many expansions and too many new items that have blown things out of proportion. I think we ought to discard the expansions... or at least the items/artefacts/master levels etc, that are at the root of the problem.
Mythic should have concentrated more on improving the game environment, rather than moving the goal-posts with cap increases, etc.
I think players have possibly given Mythic rantings about castable stun for as many years as the game as been played. I think that if Mythic really thought it was too overpowered that they would have removed it by now.
For stun to be removed, interruption would have to be negated virtually altogether. So, it's a matter of which is better... for interruption to continue as it was intended when the game first came out (not as it is now), or remove interruption and stun altogether. I'm sure if the latter happened, melée classes would be the first to moan when casters no longer had the need to train MoC because they could nuke whilst being ganked. It would be worse, because there would be no waiting for the MoC timer to come up!
Then of course, interruptions from other spells would no longer have any affect... just imagine the outcome of that! The caster that could do the most damage would probably win... which plays right into the hands of the Avalonians with their better intelligence! Aye, Hibs might be able to cast a fraction faster, but more intelligence will win out against more dexterity if there's no interruption.
The problem, as I see it, is too many expansions and too many new items that have blown things out of proportion. I think we ought to discard the expansions... or at least the items/artefacts/master levels etc, that are at the root of the problem.
Mythic should have concentrated more on improving the game environment, rather than moving the goal-posts with cap increases, etc.
<ankh> wrote:Give archers some kind of stun (with their bow that is) too and I will agree with you Gandelf.. but until then - nope
Edit: but that would proberbly ruin the game tbh.
/Ankh
Maybe Envenom for arrows? Perhaps a poison could be applied to arrows that causes instant paralysis for several seconds? That would be cool! Mind you, if the poison had a delayed reaction, that would introduce an interesting slant to the whole thing.
Edit: I miss your old avatar Ankh. You're not Ankh without it!