ToA > Wow pve

Post by **Xest** » Tue May 02, 2006 3:22 pm

Cernos wrote:Well there's hope this fusion will be Warhammer. From the early screenshots I've seen, the graphics seem a cross between DAOC and WoW and it'll be a RvR game by design. So fingers crossed, but Mythic being Mythic I'm sure they'll find a proverbial spanner somewhere to drop into the works

That's my biggest worry for Warhammer tbh, DAoC has good art (well the new characters in Catacombs were shit but I turn them off), amazing gameplay and good content but like I don't understand how Mythic can make such blatant and obvious balance mistakes and not fix them for a year+ like Bainshees, Savages, Bonedancers etc. it gives the impression they don't want to fix them for some reason and it's that that bothers me about Mythic the most.

Ovi · Post by **Ovi** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:25 pm

Xest wrote:Just wondering btw, if you want a PvE game isn't it better to just play something like EQ2?

For me it's about balance. DAoC is all about PvP, I find the PvE side extremely poor in comparison to WoW.

EQ2 is only PvE.

Wow allows me to PvE most of the time, but I can do some PvP when I fancy it, and be competitive with those with the best kit, since I can get equal kit from PvEing

Ovi · Post by **Ovi** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:30 pm

Xest wrote:Again that's a completely false statement, 6million don't agree with you whatsoever, a good 99% of those undoubtedly haven't even tried or come across DAoC because it never had the advertising and hype budget of Blizzard!

You should really know me better than to assume everything I post is 100% serious, the

's usually give it away!

Ovi · Post by **Ovi** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:37 pm

Xest wrote:That's my biggest worry for Warhammer tbh, DAoC has good art (well the new characters in Catacombs were shit but I turn them off), amazing gameplay and good content but like I don't understand how Mythic can make such blatant and obvious balance mistakes and not fix them for a year+ like Bainshees, Savages, Bonedancers etc. it gives the impression they don't want to fix them for some reason and it's that that bothers me about Mythic the most.

My biggest worry is that they try to do too much, which I think is one of the problems with DAoC. I think the class balance in Wow is much better, because they only have 9 classes to balance. Mythic have more than that for each realm!

For a PvP orientated game I would like to see a bit more variety, but I think Mythic went too far with DAoC, especially with the 2 add-ons that added classes.

Haarewin · Post by **Haarewin** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:47 pm

and overwhelmingly people ask for more classes when there are already too many

wow pve isnt fantastic ovi. i'll spit and hiss until you agree.

Shike · Post by **Shike** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:11 pm

one reason alot of people are leaving DAoC is NF I think, ever since NF was introduced numbers have steadily declined both in US and in EU. And I can see why too since it turned DAoC's PvP into:

lets play who can camp bridges the most
who can camp towers the best
who zergs the best

And thats pretty much whats left of the PvP. Ofc this is the casuals heaven but, how fun is it really to roam the same bridge, day in and day out in hopes of some group to show up that is willing to get zerged to hell. Is that really good PvP? iRvR which just is a huge zergfest where everyone just blatantly add on everyone, is it really good PvP? I mean, qualityPvP that would appeal because of a high challengeing skill-lvl where you actually need to use tactics to win. I like DAoCs system, but I absolutely hate the design of NF, ppl whined in OF because of bottlenecks and such but what did NF add, yay, even more bottlenecks since ppl just refuse to leave those precious damned bridges and towers. If you are out roaming and run into a group near a tower their realm own, there is no real point in fighting, since what will happen in most cases is that the enemys just run to the tower, well thats skilled I guess. I guess Mythic just wanted to make it easier for casuals but tbh, a onearmed 7year old can play DAoC and ring rr10 as it is now if they just zerg and then I think they overdid it, as usual when it comes to Mythic.

I just hope Mythic rethink with WAR.

Adalyn · Post by **Adalyn** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:49 pm

Altho i agree with you shike that NF drove a lot of people away from DAoC. But surely would they still be playing the game now if it still was OF? in my opinion a new scenary (spelling?) was needed to keep people playing.

Adalyn · Post by **Adalyn** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:51 pm

Ovi wrote:Sorry, but I still think Wow is still far more casual friendly than DAoC.

Don't see many BBs in Wow, that's a big plus too for casual players. That was the main reason I stopped playing DAoC, and why I will almost certainly never come back. Why should I pay for 2 accounts, just to do what I can do with 1 account in other games? I certainly can't afford to run 2 machines at the moment either, making the second account even less useful.

Yes I know you can Scrounge Buffs of others, but that shouldn't be needed.

You don't need to scrounge buffs of people, you can 'Group' with people if you ever heard of it. by the sound of it you haven't if you have to 'scrounge' for buffs to go RvR with.

Cryn · Post by **Cryn** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:53 pm

I've always preferred quest-based play, so WoW was much more fun PvE for me than DAoC sub-60/50. However, I absolutely hated the need to run instances, so once I got near 60, I dropped WoW really quick. ToA was indeed not as bad for me as running endless instances. However, WoW being crap in that respect does not make DAoC good, it just makes it not as bad.

I'm currently playing EQ2 just cos it's got a load of questing in it. Not an amazing game, but at least it's new places and people.

Cernos · Post by **Cernos** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:11 pm

Adalyn wrote:You don't need to scrounge buffs of people, you can 'Group' with people if you ever heard of it. by the sound of it you haven't if you have to 'scrounge' for buffs to go RvR with.

Trouble is this:

If you want to run in anything other than very casual pickup groups, then buffbots do inevitably enter the equation. Very often the in-group Druids/Shamans/Clerics aren't full buff spec so people use out of group buffbots. If you want to RvR regularly and competitively you need to have a buffbot or rely on someone else who does. That's just the way the game is now on the regular servers and why Classic has enjoyed some popularity.

One of the biggest tediums of DAOC has always been all the p*ssing around with buffs before a group can get into the action "I need bases", "I need spec str/con", "can I swap my yellow str/con for purple from your buffbot", "MISSING SPECS!!!!" ..... [group sets off] .... "STILL MISSING SPECS FFS, CAN WE GO BACK?".

Finally the group get buffed and sets off. They jump off the boat wherever they're going, get ambushed by the zerg or a high RR GG using radar and die in 10 seconds flat. "Are we releasing then?" ..... so it's back to border keep, rinse and repeat.

It's bad enough playing a non-buffer and dealing with all the buff nonsense before every fight, but anyone who has either played a buffing class actively or run a buffbot knows, it's a major major chore / bore sorting out buffs all the time.

Let's hope Warhammer has a simplified buffs system, something closer to WoW where buffs are spread across multiple classes and at level 60 you have a buff which buffs the entire group in one hit for 30-60 minutes duration. So each class knows it has to sort one (at most two) specific buffs and everyone can quickly set off. Much better.

Of course, some brave game designer might stumble on the idea that you CAN design a balanced game without buffs