Clustering of English servers... are we getting a bad deal?

[Kallima]

There are many ways to have fun from this game. Some have one focus, some try many things. I PvE with a multitude of characters I play incompetently. I am an RvR n00b mostly focussed on one RR7 character. I roleplay, chat to friends, and eat chocolate cake. Others get their fun from how they enjoy playing, and however they choose to do it is fine by me.

Oh and how could I forget those lgm crafters and the pure joy of crafting. <screams faintly at the memory>

[Kallima]

<Must....refrain...from....commenting>

Well done. <offers Quinlan chocolate cake as a reward for super human self control>

[Cernos]

Sofar, I havent seen any high-RR player cry about ToA, and lack of server choice, because obviously they know how to play a PvP game.

I think you'll find a lot just drifted away and went and did other things with their time. Besides, most high-RR players also have at least one level 50 alt. Giving players choice has got nothing to do with "knowing how to play a PvP game". MMORPGs need to accommodates both 'hardcore' and 'casual' players, or they will ultimately die from a dwindling player base (because casual players fall behind and new players will find it increasingly hard to join the game due to the equipment / ability divide between veterans and newcomers).

As for server clustering, it is indisputable that it gives players less choice. But with a dwindling population GOA don't have many options. The question for existing players is whether they're willing to pay the same for less choice if it means the game can continue to survive for a bit longer. I'd imagine most would say yes. But the reduced choice won't bring many new players to the game and it won't encourage back many previous players who have left.

WoW provides you with much more pleasant leveling system and a few dozen of servers to choose from, so if you believe leveling alts is THE way to spend your time, reconsider changing the game.

WoW is just the same. Levelling alts is indeed fun, but if you want to do anything substantial in PvE or PvP you must focus on only one character. The endgame time sinks in WoW are enormous, perhaps even more so than DAOC if you want to fully equip a character with all the top gear and/or reach a high PvP rank (due to the way PvP rank decays over time, so you can't take 'alt holidays' and maintain rank).

If you like alts, WoW isn't the game to play either.

[Edlina]

Didn't you start a thread with exactly the same subject around the time when the poll to cluster or not was about to come up?

[HappyG]

He he, I didnt expect so much hatemail

Call me however you want, fact is DAoC is slowly going down, there are no new people comming, there will be no new people comming. So in the end you have 3 choices:
- cluster for more people (...to PvP with)
- do nothing
- put in more servers (for everyone to have alts on all realms)

Whatever thing you do, you help some people, and harm others. My point is - many games offer leveling alts in a pleasant environment, crafting and chit chatting, while no other game offers PvP as good as DAoC's. Therefore, people who level alts, craft and chit chat are more likely to change the game, than focused PvPers. Which leads to... whenever DAoC is in front of choices like the one mentioned previously, it should turn in favour of focused PvP players.

If you like alts, WoW isn't the game to play either.

True... basicly in any MMO leveling alts doesn't help you to be good at "end game achievements", besides the help of farm bots, BBs, etc... But the fun when leveling alts in my opinion is far greater in WoW than DAoC.

So you have a high rr character, you have a ranger that doesn't group

... and, what you're trying to say is... ?

[Radu]

HappyG has the point, in WoW you dont need 2 account to compete pvp/pve, which is good point.
However, i wont call daoc rvr as hardcore pvp, it is actually easy mode pvp at the best (you lose nothing on death, and you have to pvp only in certain zones).
Clustering was a good choice, they revitalized the game with numbers, i would have see a merge instead cluster though - so everyone could join to any guild - but it is still good thing.
Classis server - i have to agree who said it will split the UK servers players, so basically they lower the number after the cluster, shrug, i wont call it as a good choice.
I have an idea, they should implement 1 day realm switch timer or so, but players could access all of 3 realms.

[Sharkith]

thats a much more reasoned post HappyG. It might be that these forums are kind of anti l33t (whatever that is). Your previous post in the thread very narrowly defined the remit of the game (in terms of the endgame) and how people should understand it. In fact all it did was paint a very narrow view of what the game was all about. I know tons of people who are in the server right now fully enjoying leveling alts and all of these don't really bother or worry that much about ToA. Many of them will eventually head off to the other realms.

I kind of frothed back at you because your generalisation was kind of untrue. It might be worth looking at where the bulk of active players are on Hibernia Prydwen before you can make such generalisations like this. The NE alliance for example (which some l33tists like to disparage as the roleplayers alliance) has the bulk of casual players and is in fact full of guilds who are mostly active. I wonder sometimes just how many active people there are elsewhere by comparison?

So if the main aim of the game is to be high RR how come it has survived since the bulk of players (who pay exactly the same amount) are actually casual and quite chilled out? They might only log in twice a week and yet they pay just what a l33t player pays. Not only this but despite the alternatives they don't go and play there. So why restrict their choices? Is it because they might leave or something? Why not build more appeal for them to keep them here? (in fact this is exactly what Mythic are doing)

WoW and other games have more than likely generated a new market rather than shrunk the existing one. Loads of people who played the RTS probably gave it a whirl. I recently had someone ask about our guild who had only ever played there and who decided to come and play the 'real' MMPORG. So I am a bit skeptical of the perspective in your last post.

On the cause or source of all the whine about clustering - I would refer you to FH where there are very few non-RvR active people posting and there you can see exactly where the real whine comes from in this game. "Givf cluster there can be more FG fights" "Cluster sucks its so zergy" and so on.

I do find it ironic in replying to you that the people who are seriously TOA weary are like me who actually want to play the RvR endgame and who have so many obstacles put it their way to get there and enjoy it. Many of my more casual friends indicate - they can enjoy it without having completely opted toons anyway.

... and, what you're trying to say is... ?

I was remarking that the two claims you made in the body of your text and your signature did not really qualify the perspective you gave as the only one worth considering. Your second post is however a lot more constructive.

[Gandelf]

Clustering was a good choice, they revitalized the game with numbers, i would have see a merge instead cluster though - so everyone could join to any guild - but it is still good thing..

Merging would create name clash problems, both for players and guilds.
Clustering resolved name clashes issues by adding the server name after the plaer name.

[centurion]

Clustering allows the whole Eu-En player base to play together, since all (two) of the Eu-En servers are clustered.

Adding a third server to the cluster would not really decline the population on the current servers, since all 3 server populations would be clustered. The only effect would be on the levelling, but that is already beyond help imo, new players will get shafted either way and existing players either PL with 2nd accounts or grind Catacombs dungeons.

The advantage would be that we would have the choice of all 3 realms. I think the classic server is more of a threat, since that won't be clustered, and therefore will split the Eu-En playerbase.

Was not taking the option of creating a third server in the cluster into account, was more pointed at making another server ( like classic) outside the cluster.

[Radu]

Merging would create name clash problems, both for players and guilds.
Clustering resolved name clashes issues by adding the server name after the plaer name.

There is possible to add an X(s) or something to names which are same on both servers, and the command whith u can rename ur char if it got that X after merge. Thats how everquest merge worked - they merged every 2 servers into one. The clustering is in my eye something halfly done - daoc never get raising numbers anymore, and they created duplicated zones from pve zones, and a common frontier and capital - i dont see any reason why.