OK, bring in the DB Techies

Killder · Post by **Killder** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:50 pm

This is not intended to be a whine at GOA - I have 3 characters stripped of all items but luckily had their templates stored so I am confident they will be fixed in time. I just cant get my head round why GOA are fixing the problems in this way.

For information I work as a professional DBA - I have been fixing database problems for more years than I can remember.

I read somewhere that the DAOC database is not a 'relational' database (such as Oracle, DB2, SQLServer etc.) but rather a 'flat-file' database of not specified origin. However, technically, the principles for this discussion should still apply.

I'll try to explain in less technical terms.....

When we 'relational' DBA's talk about a rollback, what we really mean is a restore and rollforward to a point in time prior to a problem occurring hence it appears as a rollback before the problem occurred.

Consider the scenario:

A problem occurred on a database at time 'X' which could not be fixed without implementing a 'rollback' (this could be hardware failure, software related, human error or any numerous reason).

What happens next is a full backup of the database (usually backups are taken daily/weekly and stored on a tape cartridge away from the actual database server) is loaded over the top of the faulty database thereby replacing it with an un-faulty albeit older version.

Then transactional logs which store all database transactions (these logging activities are occurring when you see the 'your character has been saved' message in game) between successful backups are re-applied to the older restored database until a point in time just before the problem occurred.

Hence if GOA have performed such a rollback, the only problems we should be encountering with our charactares is the loss of items/exp/money obtained in the period of time between the point in time of the rollback and the time the database was shutdown to perfoirm the rollback which according to GOA should be about half a day (Wednesday). I'm sure we would all prefer this scenario rather than thousands of RightNow submissions and trying to remember what is on our characters and vaults.

I would pose some questions with the current GOA solution:

(1) Did they have a problem with their tape backups? maybe they didn't have a valid backup that they could restore?
(2) Did the problem corrupting the database happen a long time ago and only an event more recent has caused the database to actually 'show' the corruptions? ie. they could not do a rollback because the period of data-loss would be unacceptable to all customers.
(3) Has a human-error occurred? eg. Haxxor or accidental GOA employee related?

All the above cases would need a manual data-cleanse which seems to be what is happening here and in business terms a DBA somewhere would be looking for a new job because of this.

Ankh Morpork · Post by **Ankh Morpork** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:55 pm

Don't forget that GOA apparently can't say due to some restrictions in their contract with Mythic. (or so they say atleast)

/Ankh

Nedo · Post by **Nedo** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:59 pm

My guessing would be nr2 in youre little list. They dont know when it started so therefore cant rollback to a certain point in time and apply redologgs forward. Just a guess though based on how they handle it and experiences from recovering Oracle db's from breakdowns.

Vampiiress · Post by **Vampiiress** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:00 pm

I've lost everything on 3 main chars, and on 3 less important chars. We talk about artifacts, ml10 stuff and crafted mp's. There is no way I can remember each item. This is not all !

At one of my accounts, I cant log onto Rightnow, as it Say my user ID is invalid. I logged into my subscription page, and everything is as it should be. Both my user ID and My e-mail adress is correct, but still I cant log onto right now, and not even request new password, as it wont reconize my user ID. Other ppl I've talked to have other strange things happening when contacting Rightnow - such as recieving an email on their emailadress, but adressing someone else.

Luz · Post by **Luz** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:00 pm

they havent got a clue

think they hire someone to fix the problem when it happens rather then having an employed DB guy..

so that person has no idea what kind of DB he is trying to fix or what its related to.

Because I done a fair share of mySQL, and even if its NOTHING like that the very A, the BASIC, the FIRST thing, the ESSENCE of database is

"B A C K U P"!!!!

The ONLY reasons they could possibly have for NOT restoring a backup is :

1. They´ve lost the friggin backups ? (LOL?)
2. They made a mayor change in the database structure prior to the crash, why they have no backups with the new structure!!!
3. They have their heads in their buts and are plain stupid.

I think option 2 if I am going to be serious. They made a mayor change in the database prior to clustering, like adding tables and rows with various information - somewhere here along the way they fecked up and it crashed with no available backup of the new database with the new structure.

Ankh Morpork · Post by **Ankh Morpork** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:04 pm

Luz wrote: Because I done a fair share of mySQL, and even if its NOTHING like that the very A, the BASIC, the FIRST thing, the ESSENCE of database is

"B A C K U P"!!!!

Thats kind of the very A of everything to do with computers imo

/Ankh

Quinlan · Post by **Quinlan** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:04 pm

Killder wrote:Alot

They said numerous times a rollback doesnt fix the problem. If they would have only rolled back the chance is great the same thing happens again. Hence they had to fix it.

Satyn · Post by **Satyn** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:06 pm

tbh i dont understand whats so important about knowing the details about what went wrong. Things went wrong, apparently very serious and it should be sorted right now. Thats all I need to know.

Ankh Morpork · Post by **Ankh Morpork** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:08 pm

Satyn wrote:tbh i dont understand whats so important about knowing the details about what went wrong. Things went wrong, apparently very serious and it should be sorted right now. Thats all I need to know.

/agree

...BUT I think the reason people wanna know is cos they wanna know if they can trust this to never happen again (wild guess as usual!)

/Ankh

Luz · Post by **Luz** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:09 pm

Yeh.. but people need to feel like they know best, and to know best you need to know the facts

Me personally just want to know if I pay subs to a bunch of people who are more wack then myself.. and if so maybe I should not lol :lemony: