New Server Type for the US Game

[Flippant Desires]

As to bringing in comments pertaining to race, that's just low, don't be so utterly pathetic, just because you can't bring in a valid, sensible and well thought out argument doesn't mean resorting to that backed by a few insults will strengthen what you say.

Excuse me, but you're the one throwing insults about 'why ppl left'. Care to substantiate your argument there? I've not said anything low, I'm comparing a short-sighted perception against your's. Ppl who thought blacks were thieves are not intrinsically racist, they have a poor understanding of the issues. You could look on those ppl and respond to it as racism [thru the courts etc], but you'd be missing the point entirely [as it's more likely to be poor integration/inequality].

My point then is you are making a general sweaping statement - ppl left because they don't like BBs. You're totally undervaluing those ppl's reasons.

Still you're just another of those that blatantly hasn't played DAoC in quite a long time so I wouldn't expect you to have a clue about the current state of the game - particularly on the US servers as you've proven from your comments that you clearly don't.

True, I've not played US game for 6months now. But what makes you think this is about balance anyway? That's a secondary issue Mythic will have to look at. The primary one atm is play-style and the time ppl don't have.

[Xest]

Excuse me, but you're the one throwing insults about 'why ppl left'. Care to substantiate your argument there? I've not said anything low, I'm comparing a short-sighted perception against your's. Ppl who thought blacks were thieves are not intrinsically racist, they have a poor understanding of the issues. You could look on those ppl and respond to it as racism [thru the courts etc], but you'd be missing the point entirely [as it's more likely to be poor integration/inequality].

My point then is you are making a general sweaping statement - ppl left because they don't like BBs. You're totally undervaluing those ppl's reasons.




True, I've not played US game for 6months now. But what makes you think this is about balance anyway? That's a secondary issue Mythic will have to look at. The primary one atm is play-style and the time ppl don't have.

Your response clearly shows you didn't even read my post properly, I never made any generalisation about why people have left, I did however make a generalisation about the people who left over buffbots, because it is largely a fair generalisation. The fact is every single post I see by people saying they left because of buffbots includes comments suggesting they think that buffbots can be removed without any impact on game balance and that is NOT the case right now no matter how you try to argue it, removing buffbots will make the game far less balanced than it is now.

If you're going to bitch at me at least be sure of what you're bitching about first.

[Flippant Desires]

Your response clearly shows you didn't even read my post properly, I never made any generalisation about why people have left, I did however make a generalisation about the people who left over buffbots...

True, you did refer specifically at ppl leaving because of BBs. I think you're undervaluing the reasons why ppl left. Do you honestly think ppl left solely because of BBs? Everyone I speak about leaving did so for a number of reasons, BBs certainly didn't help, but they weren't the deciding factor.

I've taken offense to your implication here that it's just a server for whiners about BB, who have no idea about the current game.

If it's just left as a server for old-time players, then yeah that '4months down the line' dead server will happen. Perhaps Mythic only want a short-term solution. But I think a more 'casual-player' orientated server could work.

I never liked BBs and only ever played a BB for 1hr. But I'm seeing the new server type as a possible why for new and old players to get into the game, without feeling they are missing out because of 4hr+ raids or BBs. And if that means a new rule-set to adjust for the 'current game', then why not?

[Xest]

lol, let's try again, you're clearly having trouble comprehending my comments.

I
only
made
a
generalisation
about
people
who
left
specifically
because
of
buffbots
and
not
people
who
left
for
other
reasons

Comprende? It's really not that difficult to understand.

[Cernos]

Problem is the ones who left but left because of BBs are also the ones who don't understand game balance in it's current form and that's what Mythic has made it's decision around, essentially they're using current subscribers subs to haul in players who left but that will never ever benefit current subscribers because they'll be on a completely different server anyway. Can't say I appreciate my subs being wasted on something no one else active in game currently wanted just so Mythic can haul in a few buffbot cry babies who don't realise that the 5000 range limit on buffs is going to screw the game even worse than where buffbots were commonplace. What's more if they left the game in the first place it shows they're the type to just leave when something like that bothers them so will only leave again anyway when they realise their calls for ranged buffs break the game even more meaning we're stuck with 2 more dead servers rather than 1 new server that everyone really wanted and would play.

Heh, so those people who would prefer to play in a buffbot free game are just cry babys eh? Viewed from another perspective some might call them smart. If you're so worried about your subs being wasted, why play a game that pretty much insists you run two accounts just to stay competitive? To pay twice for everything (expansions and monthly fees) to essentially play one character seems somewhat wasteful to me. If you're happy with that, then fine, as I'm sure Mythic are. But a lot of players aren't. Some quit the game, others reluctantly run second accounts to stay competitive. Most I am sure would rather Mythic balanced the game without buffbots than with (and yes of course if you remove them things would need rebalancing).

And before anyone says .... yes I've run a buffbot account, though I always made sure my bot characters were balanced enough spec they could be played in their own right. But eventually I got tired of paying for multiple accounts, tired of having to drag a buffbot around the place and tired of the crazy situation with co-ordinating multiple buffbots outside Ligen before doing any group RvR.

My credit card is happier and so is my sister who now has an upgraded PC thanks to decommissoning my buffbot PC.

[Flippant Desires]

lol, let's try again, you're clearly having trouble comprehending my comments....

hehe

I know that, so answer this question "When estimating the potential population of the new server, how significant will the loss of BBs be?".

Let's take the purist point, ppl who left solely on the grounds of BBs. Overall effect on potential population, insignificant.

For the majority, this is something that would 'appeal'. The server isn't just no-BB, it's also no /Level command and no-ToA. Combined they are more appealing.

So my point, you are either focusing on a tiny number of ppl [I don't understand why], or you are implicit, and so are in fact talking about all those who cite BB as 'a' reason.

Why cite a small number of ppl who 'claim' that BBs ruined the game? You're not convincing me that new 'server rule-set' and 'whining anti-BB' are directly linked.




On the effect of no-BB. I understand and accept your general comments about how BBs are in fact part of the 'current game', but that is not in itself and argument against new server type.



edit-- some typos

[Xest]

Heh, so those people who would prefer to play in a buffbot free game are just cry babys eh? Viewed from another perspective some might call them smart. If you're so worried about your subs being wasted, why play a game that pretty much insists you run two accounts just to stay competitive? To pay twice for everything (expansions and monthly fees) to essentially play one character seems somewhat wasteful to me. If you're happy with that, then fine, as I'm sure Mythic are. But a lot of players aren't. Some quit the game, others reluctantly run second accounts to stay competitive. Most I am sure would rather Mythic balanced the game without buffbots than with (and yes of course if you remove them things would need rebalancing).

And before anyone says .... yes I've run a buffbot account, though I always made sure my bot characters were balanced enough spec they could be played in their own right. But eventually I got tired of paying for multiple accounts, tired of having to drag a buffbot around the place and tired of the crazy situation with co-ordinating multiple buffbots outside Ligen before doing any group RvR.

My credit card is happier and so is my sister who now has an upgraded PC thanks to decommissoning my buffbot PC.

But you're just twisting words, again I never once stated they're crybabies for wanting to play in a buffbot free game - I'd much prefer the same, I am saying however they're crybabies for quitting over it it's not hard to run a bot, and if you REALLY can't run or afford one it's even less hard to make a single friend who will buff you or roll a class that doesn't even really need bots.

Flippant, the reason I'm targetting those small number of people is because it's those small number have somehow, got their way - as I showed with the polls the people who wanted no bots was 1 in 20 people, that's a really small amount compared to the almost 1 in 4 that wanted a home invasion server or the almost 1 in 4 that wanted just no ToA.

[Argyleyn]

They didn't really get their way, getting their way would be limiting buffs to be range-based on all servers. They just got a place they can test if playing without bb's was what they really wanted, along with some other bonuses (no toa etc etc).

[Xest]

They didn't really get their way, getting their way would be limiting buffs to be range-based on all servers. They just got a place they can test if playing without bb's was what they really wanted, along with some other bonuses (no toa etc etc).

Yes but at the expense of dev time that could've been used on stuff that really mattered other than something that's horribly flawed - 5000 range ranged buffs. Also at the expense of a new server type that over 5 times the amount of current paying subscribers wanted instead.

If I knew that this had no effect on everything else I wouldn't care, but Sanya's stated herself things like the TL reports have been delayed for it and such and it also means we wont be getting the new server nearly all of us currently paying wanted after all.

[Flippant Desires]

I see it now

You don't like anti-BB because it was only a fraction of the vote.

What then was the purpse of a new server though? You could have any number of server rule-sets, assuming the player-base would support it. I maintain that no BB option isn't going to be the deciding factor behind ppl's choice to rejoin or start as a new player.

I couldn't really care less about the fraction who are motivated by no-BB option. But it's certainly more appealing to hear that this new server won't have BBs. And whether that new server had BB or not, it would still take-up Dev. time.

Yeah it's going to take-up even more time if the server itself is a success (dual patching seems inevitable...), but what's better? A server that attracts new payments, or one that circulates a existing paying customers?

This week Blizz announced that there are now over 3m paying customers of WoW. OK, you can certainly play with numbers a bit. But the fact remains, Mythic need new and old players to start playing, in far greater numbers than they've had through Catacombs etc.

Things like 'home invasion' sound nice, but only to existing players.

I bet Mythic's HR dept. are working over-time, sorting out those incentive packages to keep lead designers...