Raid leaders claiming loot discussion -- split from Rowennas Ml rush

[Adianna]

Im against pre-claiming. Its the people that make a raid work, and leading can be done by just reading a site like VoS, or even just having it open during a raid. (yes I agree some do it better then others, and yes there might be occasions where good leading means win or loose, but in general its not very hard with bigger raids)

Then why do I hear so often, that there are to few raids etc.

If it is so simple and there isn't any extra work in it, why doesn't everyone do it?

I've led several raids, and I can assure you, the work doesn't get less on bigger raids, it rather gets more. Sure you can use the zerg and kill tactics on most steps etc. but you have to maneuver the raid better then. If you don't pay attention for only one minute to keep everyone in line, your raid will scatter so far that the first people are already killing the mob while the last aren't even in range and so on. If you don't care as long as you get the step etc. fine... but that is the difference between a good and a bad leader.

In addition on several raids you have to do some extra work so that everything will go well in case of special items you must collect. When running forth and back and forth and back above situation will get even worse, so a good leader will try to avoid it by getting these items ahead of the raid etc.

Although there are guides for every step, you have make the theoretic writing in working in the live situation.

I don't care if someone pre-claims special items. No one is forced to attend a raid where the raid leader claims a drop for himself, neither is anyone forced to attend a raid where the leader doesn't.
If you don't like it, don't go there and make a raid for yourself if it's so easy, a rather simple choice.

[Overdue]

I love democracy

[Bugzy]

First of, those of you saying leading raids are easy - it most certainly not. Try it, you'd be amazed.

Yes. VoS helps with steps, but in the buggy world of DAoC, bugs appear and people don't listen which requires extra explainations or extra advice something VoS doesn't tackle. A good leader needs to make decisions fast and quick, they need to be able to keep people focused and make people feel that they are gettin involved.

Now a days, people look for speed in a ML raid, if you can't offer speed but you can do the steps by hugging VoS sight then you no you don't deserve to preclaim but seriously, those of you who are moaning about how raids are so easy, go organise a bloudy ml rush or stfu !

[Adalyn]

Anoter lame thread about pre-claiming items, the Leader is running the Raid they should be able to claim what they like, if so many people know how to do the raids why don't you run the ML1-10 yourself instead of moaning at people that run raids that pre-claim 1 item of the raid 'they' run.

[spook]

comply with the set rules of the raidleader, or don't join the raid.

If you have a problem with people preclaiming and item that might not drop. Then wait for a raid with a leader that doesn't preclaim. Or, run one yourself

[Norcott]

People should be grateful that somebody is organising such ML raids imo.. and i personally have never had a problem with the leader claiming anything.. hes more than likely got all the steps him/her self so by the raid being run and you being on it u are in turn gaining something you didnt have.. which was the master level and a chance to roll for something.. I waited months and months for someone to organise a ml9.10 raid in the end we had to wait until after the patch so that we could do it with less numbers we also did ml10 striaght after.. i hung around to see if there was anything id fancy rolling for but I was on my main char and hes toa'd and templated so why would i want anything.. just hung around at the end to see if there was anything left i could use on my bainshee as it happened there wasnt but I wasnt bothered i just got ml9 and 10 in one night.. most on the raid had alrdy got it so fair play i may not have rolled for anything but they deserved it Including the raid leader,, and why not without that person or future people organising raids of this kind NONE of you would get ANYTHING..

The Piper must be paid before anybody dips into the pot !

[Kesxex]

I personally think pre-claiming is pretty lame thing since all the leader does, is tell their zerg what to do (which tbph, anyone can do if they goggle a guide).

This is the most typical misconception that non-raid leaders have. As stated above by others the more the merrier the more difficult.
In fact I disagree that people who have done steps before are actually a help. They are often a big obstacle, wanting it to get over with and actually endangering the success of the raid.

People who haven't done the steps (and there are often a fair few on each raid) are often more attentive to directions and instructions.

Bridging this discrepance as a raid leader is often frustrating, annoying and requiring quite a lot of social skills to make the players who speed ahead still attentive, bring the afk'ers (on every raid) into range for encounter and keeping the rest entertained so it is fun for everyone.

If it would be so easy to lead a raid as it is stated then my only suggestion to the ones thinking it is then do a raid with 80+ people. And keeping it fun and entertainment for 3 hours. Plus the hour loot split that is normal.
Then come back and say a raid can be done without a leader as it is exactly that what you are saying.

[Mojo]

I don't have a problem with raid leaders claiming items, I have a problem with people rolling for items they don't need.

[Armok]

bah why did a mod cut my post from main one and remake it as a new topic? looks like im inciting a flame war on pre claimers

[mod]
It was a thread split
[/mod]

i have no problem with pre claiming cos if sombody isnt to well known and is new to a realm decides to help other by ding a ML rush and thus pre-claiming for themselves i have no prolem with that at all. because it does take time/effort etc etc to attain those ml's and items. and MANY people just sit on there ass and dont bother till sum1 else makes the effort to run a raid.

many folks dislike pre claiming. some dont mind ,, i personally dont mind.. as to why i asked in the original ML thread if Pre claiming is considered bad on this server cos i am reasonably new here to hib.. cos some pre claimers on excal in the past got flamed.

only time i disagree with pre claiming is when a random /sends for helping doing <insert artifact here> and then says its already claimed by sum1 in grp and my helping is just for the fact of helping.... even tho i may need arti (and others in grp) and it is a random from a /gu i dont know and i dont know the person.. imo a better way to stop the flames by those who may flame it .. is to give the one who tried preclaim a +15 or summin on their roll when they lotto (helping /gu or /as is different i dont mind cos i know i can ask for help in future)

and if its on ML raids and reasonably rare items then imo if you dont like the raid leader pre-claiming then dont attend . its that simple..


but i would like to point out i did NOT ask a mod to cut my original question from the ml thread and make a new flamebait post here .. cos i only asked if pre-claiming was ok as a general question . not a flame on his/her intentions on the raid

[nibs]

This is the most typical misconception that non-raid leaders have.

Ive led a fair few raids, be it ML's, Arti's, EXP, or farm; as have many people.

So when i say 'its not hard' thats 'my' point of view on leading from 'my' experience.

Hard part is leading a successful one; and thats as much down to the leader as it is the people attending. (cause lets face it, if people dont pay attention and do as they are asked; only then is the raid leader being forced into a stressful, irritable situation (all fun and games until someone loses an eye (or so they say)))