I must be the only person who genuinely liked toa and what the MLs/Artifacts brought to rvr.. (well with 2 exceptions, FZ and grapple, as I don't think there should be effects you have absolutely no way of countering -ie if they were purgeable/had immunity timers etc would be fine).
Toa greatly improved class balance, and made both tanks and casters viable at the same time. Prior to toa it was either all casters that pwned or all tanks depending on which patch it was, the hybrid groups needed to do well after toa never existed before then.
And despite everyone's whines, toaing and such is *not* that hard, my scout started on MLs at lvl40, and got about 70% of the xp to 50 from MLs alone, from my point of view, MLs made levelling a much easier prospect as the first time round getting from 40 to 50 was hell itself . Getting some artifacts can be tricky, but once you get encounter credit, the vast majority of artifacts can just be bought. And money is sooo easy to get in toa that it's just not funny.
Only thing I don't like is that you can't use artifacts that aren't equipped *and* they removed the ability of swapping them without reseting the timers. That was great tbh, if you were able to fight competently and be swapping your artifacts for maximum effect at the same time was actually displaying some skill Pity they removed that imo x<. Oh and artifacts losing durability is ><
ofc ml's aint hard for a hardcorer like you male, but for casual players its a pain (and for the once like me that fall asleep after 5 sec of pve these days)
If there was a non ToA server i feel that alot of people would roll Midgard because it was so easy mode back in SI days. Ofcourse mythic wouldn't bring back earlier patches (wish they did i want my insta dps debuff ) so there wouldnt be fotm zerkers running around, but if a server like this did open up, it would still be a whole lot different from SI.
willowywicca wrote:
I must be the only person who genuinely liked toa and what the MLs/Artifacts brought to rvr.. (well with 2 exceptions, FZ and grapple, as I don't think there should be effects you have absolutely no way of countering -ie if they were purgeable/had immunity timers etc would be fine).
Toa greatly improved class balance, and made both tanks and casters viable at the same time. Prior to toa it was either all casters that pwned or all tanks depending on which patch it was, the hybrid groups needed to do well after toa never existed before then.
And despite everyone's whines, toaing and such is *not* that hard, my scout started on MLs at lvl40, and got about 70% of the xp to 50 from MLs alone, from my point of view, MLs made levelling a much easier prospect as the first time round getting from 40 to 50 was hell itself . Getting some artifacts can be tricky, but once you get encounter credit, the vast majority of artifacts can just be bought. And money is sooo easy to get in toa that it's just not funny.
Only thing I don't like is that you can't use artifacts that aren't equipped *and* they removed the ability of swapping them without reseting the timers. That was great tbh, if you were able to fight competently and be swapping your artifacts for maximum effect at the same time was actually displaying some skill Pity they removed that imo x<. Oh and artifacts losing durability is ><
If everyone else is like me it's not so much not liking ToA and what it brought to the game, it's the fact that it's an essential time consuming grind. I really do love a lot of the things in ToA, what I don't like is that it's like an essential to compete extra 3 months PvE on your chars before they're RvR viable. It's better now since 1.75 on US - you can ToA out in a month pretty easily (Less if you have time/will to put into it of course) but it's still quite a long time that people don't want to have to do just to be competitive.
One other thing to note, I'm wondering if home invasion does indeed mean old frontiers - it would seem more logical as home invasion would outright suck with NF frontiers people would just farm you as you zone into the other realm's mainlands. Both non-ToA and home invasion really tempt me, particularly if it is the retro OF - in fact, merge the two servers into one and I'd be extremely happy - essentially a pre-ToA, pre-NF server but with a home invasion option.
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Xest wrote:If everyone else is like me it's not so much not liking ToA and what it brought to the game, it's the fact that it's an essential time consuming grind. I really do love a lot of the things in ToA, what I don't like is that it's like an essential to compete extra 3 months PvE on your chars before they're RvR viable. It's better now since 1.75 on US - you can ToA out in a month pretty easily (Less if you have time/will to put into it of course) but it's still quite a long time that people don't want to have to do just to be competitive.
Hmm, well I'm playing WoW atm, and the pve grind in wow is making toa seem like it was heaven to me just now Anyhows, if you desperately wanted to you could get fully toaed in under 2 weeks (hardcore players that is) casual players it takes a long time yes.. but if instead of trying to level up and then do toa, but instead mix the two, it isn't in fact an additional amount of time, the two can be done simultaneously and in fact, it makes the levelling experience far more enjoyable ( 1) I levelled my scout largely without PL, tho I did do a small bit in AC where I was playing the only active healer in group and scout as blockbot for main tank at the same time.. was actually a lot of fun too playing 2 chars together 2)I ofc have not played catacombs at all so dunno what levelling is like there ), as with the exception of PL, ML runs are probably the best xp you can get as a random. Ofc if you're low level it's tougher to get groups unless you lead your own MLs (something I had to do), but that's nohing to do with casual/hardcore, that's whether you've got enough initiative to just read vos once and then pretend to lead Think I had 4~ artifacts on my scout before I got it to 50 too.
That being said, if you're one of those people who have already got 10 lvl50 alts from all your CF 4fins PLing, then yeah I can see how it's a pain to do But then you're not really a casual player are you? And tbh you deserve to suffer! As you cheated getting all that PL so you *should* have to spend ages more toaing yourself to balance it out!
And Heta I'm not sure what you're saying, my scout I played very little while getting it toaed and such since I was trying to get rr11 on caba at the time, such that, from the point of view of how much time I spent actively on the scout, was not significantly more than an active casual player would.. And a casual player can always (if they so chose) get 2~ MLs done each weekend, and a lot of classes don't really need ML10 just a few of the earlier ones is enough to be competitive..
As for being bored of pve, first time through the MLs I thought they were quite fun, and 2nd time was a laugh too cos I had some friends with me on each raid and we were just laughing at how many things went wrong Best part was ml8 ]
i did that everyone took it very well, but i still felt gutted
Personally i think ToA was a good thing as at the beginning of DAoC we basically had zero lev 40-50 content(just the epic quest).
Problem is it caused greed and that shattered the community a fair bit.
willowywicca wrote:
Hmm, well I'm playing WoW atm, and the pve grind in wow is making toa seem like it was heaven to me just now Anyhows, if you desperately wanted to you could get fully toaed in under 2 weeks (hardcore players that is) casual players it takes a long time yes.. but if instead of trying to level up and then do toa, but instead mix the two, it isn't in fact an additional amount of time, the two can be done simultaneously and in fact, it makes the levelling experience far more enjoyable ( 1) I levelled my scout largely without PL, tho I did do a small bit in AC where I was playing the only active healer in group and scout as blockbot for main tank at the same time.. was actually a lot of fun too playing 2 chars together 2)I ofc have not played catacombs at all so dunno what levelling is like there ), as with the exception of PL, ML runs are probably the best xp you can get as a random. Ofc if you're low level it's tougher to get groups unless you lead your own MLs (something I had to do), but that's nohing to do with casual/hardcore, that's whether you've got enough initiative to just read vos once and then pretend to lead Think I had 4~ artifacts on my scout before I got it to 50 too.
That being said, if you're one of those people who have already got 10 lvl50 alts from all your CF 4fins PLing, then yeah I can see how it's a pain to do But then you're not really a casual player are you? And tbh you deserve to suffer! As you cheated getting all that PL so you *should* have to spend ages more toaing yourself to balance it out!
And Heta I'm not sure what you're saying, my scout I played very little while getting it toaed and such since I was trying to get rr11 on caba at the time, such that, from the point of view of how much time I spent actively on the scout, was not significantly more than an active casual player would.. And a casual player can always (if they so chose) get 2~ MLs done each weekend, and a lot of classes don't really need ML10 just a few of the earlier ones is enough to be competitive..
As for being bored of pve, first time through the MLs I thought they were quite fun, and 2nd time was a laugh too cos I had some friends with me on each raid and we were just laughing at how many things went wrong Best part was ml8 ]
A couple of guildies just did ToA in about a week (No MLs tho just artis/levelling artis) but the problem is to do it you literally have to accept giving up any resemblance of a social life for that week - something I'm finding increasingly more difficult to do as I get older. Tommorrow we'll be doing ML1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 in a day which really helps and can only be acheived thanks to 1.75 but I think there's still a long way to go in making ToA less of a grind - the new Cloudsong spawn means you can essentially write Cloudsong off from any future templates as, whilst it's 100% drop now it can also take 3 days to repop worst case - no one can camp that long.
Catacombs made PL less worthy tbh, you can level up pretty fast in Catacombs without PL which is cool and it does make levelling more fun and less grind also. Like you mentioned I think multiple chars makes it less fun also, when you'e done ToA once it's fun but it gets increasingly more dull - I personally think artifact encounter credit should be per-account and not per-character at least.
I know what you mean about the PvE in WoW, level 17 on my druid felt as slow as like lvl35 does in DAoC nowadays so I just gave up, if it's that tedious at low levels, I'm not gonna stick out the high levels.
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Aran_Thule wrote:i did that everyone took it very well, but i still felt gutted
Personally i think ToA was a good thing as at the beginning of DAoC we basically had zero lev 40-50 content(just the epic quest).
Problem is it caused greed and that shattered the community a fair bit.
Didn't Legion loot already do that a few times tho ?
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. Getting some artifacts can be tricky, but once you get encounter credit, the vast majority of artifacts can just be bought. And money is sooo easy to get in toa that it's just not funny.
Best part was ml8 ]
everyone took it very well, but i still felt gutted
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