Applying to NE.

[Gitt]

There are two main reasons that an application will be vetoed.

Firstly normally being if it is a very small or newly formed guild

Second is if you think that the guild joining the alliance will cause differculties.


In the case of Chosen there were problems for both reasons.

Now this caught my interest...

I agree whole heartedly with the decision to treat any amalgamation of Chosen/Mirage as a new application as only one of those guilds was an existing NE member.

I can certainly see that there is no advantage for NE to recruit a very small guild if it could mean the refusal of a larger, more active guild later on. So certainly it would seem justified to refuse Chosen/Mirage access if they had less active members than the existing NE guilds.

The bit that caught my attention was the statement that Chosen was vetoed because their joining the alliance would cause difficulties...

Now forgive me if I am wrong, but since my departure from Chosen in January, and subsequent Departure from DAoC in March, the behaviour and activity of Chosen has been nothing but exemplary.

Chosen members and groups have led countless raids in the benefit of all the realm, so I am curious as to why anyone should wish to veto them...

To my knowledge there has been only one dispute between a Chosen member and a member of an NE guild, which was a misunderstanding between individuals that got out of hand but was resolved after the event, so I can't see that being an issue. Not that I would ever consider dislike for a single member or grievance regarding their behaviour would ever be used to veto a whole guild anyway, that would be ridiculous.

It can't be any harboured resentment over the split from SP alliance as that ultimately increased the size of NE and it hasn't already prevented the successful application of 2 of the 4 "breakaway" guilds.

Which really only leaves the possibility of some sort of grudge against the guild. However considering the guild, as at the time of application to NE, contains no members who have been around long enough to take part in any of the "colourful history" I find it equally hard to believe anyone could be short-sighted, obsessive or immature enough to pursue a campaign against a guild name irrespective of its members.

What a conundrum

I'm sure everyone would be most receptive if the vetoing guild would be good enough to step up and explain their action but I'm sure we equally understand their right to anonymity should they not wish to subject their decision to public scrutiny.

<edit> wysiwyg?.. my hairy backside!

[Thandruil]

Lenah had the power to ensure they did not get removed in the first place but unfortunately in the view of everyone in the alliance the guild was inactive and should be removed.

Sharkith

This has been said several times now and people still don't seem to understand. The removal of the 3 guilds last sunday wasn't a decission made in 1 day, but more than a month. So all active guilds DID have the chance to reply and tell us they were still active. For some reason they didn't, and for us this meant they were inactive. Which resulted to the removal of the 3 guilds.

The only reason i can think of why Lenah didn't reply or wanted to wait was cause she was waiting/hoping to become GM of Chosen and keep playing in that guild. This afaik didn't happen and thus made her decide to go back to Mirage, and back in NE alliance. Unfortunatly for her the guild was removed from alliance by then, BUT she did have a choice and could have come to the GM last sunday.

I can understand ur point of view Levelnix and Alex, but plz keep in mind this isn't a decission made by Aran alone, he is only the messenger of bad news at this point. This could've been anyone tbh, but Aran always has been more or less the diplomat who tries to keep things in a good way. So no need to attack him personally on this. There are several guilds in the alliance, each with their own GM's, who can read the GM forum and know what is said there.
A veto has been said, and with several reasons to inform why.

So if there is anything going on, u can always ask any of the Gm's, who will more than happily answer ur questions. But this has nothing to do with censoring.

[levelnix]

This has been said several times now and people still don't seem to understand. The removal of the 3 guilds last sunday wasn't a decission made in 1 day, but more than a month. So all active guilds DID have the chance to reply and tell us they were still active. For some reason they didn't, and for us this meant they were inactive. Which resulted to the removal of the 3 guilds.

The only reason i can think of why Lenah didn't reply or wanted to wait was cause she was waiting/hoping to become GM of Chosen and keep playing in that guild. This afaik didn't happen and thus made her decide to go back to Mirage, and back in NE alliance. Unfortunatly for her the guild was removed from alliance by then, BUT she did have a choice and could have come to the GM last sunday.

I can understand ur point of view Levelnix and Alex, but plz keep in mind this isn't a decission made by Aran alone, he is only the messenger of bad news at this point. This could've been anyone tbh, but Aran always has been more or less the diplomat who tries to keep things in a good way. So no need to attack him personally on this. There are several guilds in the alliance, each with their own GM's, who can read the GM forum and know what is said there.
A veto has been said, and with several reasons to inform why.

So if there is anything going on, u can always ask any of the Gm's, who will more than happily answer ur questions. But this has nothing to do with censoring.

wanted to post here again but thx gitt
and noone attacked aran he will every have my respect
and i count him to my friends and nothing can change this
leadeship needs conflict s and they good to solve problems
and avoid mistakes in future
also everyone should be abel to handel that like adults and
find together again after the conflict is solved

[Sharkith]

This has been said several times now and people still don't seem to understand. The removal of the 3 guilds last sunday wasn't a decission made in 1 day, but more than a month. So all active guilds DID have the chance to reply and tell us they were still active. For some reason they didn't, and for us this meant they were inactive. Which resulted to the removal of the 3 guilds.

The only reason i can think of why Lenah didn't reply or wanted to wait was cause she was waiting/hoping to become GM of Chosen and keep playing in that guild. This afaik didn't happen and thus made her decide to go back to Mirage, and back in NE alliance. Unfortunatly for her the guild was removed from alliance by then, BUT she did have a choice and could have come to the GM last sunday.

I can understand ur point of view Levelnix and Alex, but plz keep in mind this isn't a decission made by Aran alone, he is only the messenger of bad news at this point. This could've been anyone tbh, but Aran always has been more or less the diplomat who tries to keep things in a good way. So no need to attack him personally on this. There are several guilds in the alliance, each with their own GM's, who can read the GM forum and know what is said there.
A veto has been said, and with several reasons to inform why.

So if there is anything going on, u can always ask any of the Gm's, who will more than happily answer ur questions. But this has nothing to do with censoring.

Yes just to clarify I agree my post is not totally clear. It was my understanding that Lenah had the power to stop the removal but unfortunately she did not. I am in complete agreement with everything you say here Thand and this is my understanding of the unfortunate situation..

[Ankh Morpork]

Now forgive me if I am wrong, but since my departure from Chosen in January, and subsequent Departure from DAoC in March, the behaviour and activity of Chosen has been nothing but exemplary.

How can you tell if you havent played since march? No offense mate but since your not really in daoc and this is an NE matter I think you should leave the discussion to us (even if you used to be in Chosen).

Edit: It's apparently a pretty wild discussion as it is so we should avoid getting more 'fuel' from people not involved in the discussion

/Ankh

[Gitt]

How can you tell if you havent played since march? No offense mate but since your not really in daoc and this is an NE matter I think you should leave the discussion to us (even if you used to be in Chosen).

Edit: It's apparently a pretty wild discussion as it is so we should avoid getting more 'fuel' from people not involved in the discussion

/Ankh

Although I haven't played since March, I have continued to haunt these forums, and speak with people who are still active in the game. I am not aware of any comments or arguements against Chosen or its members being made and so I presume they are still the sweet bunch of people I remember.

I wasn't intentionally adding 'fuel' to the discussion, I was merely expressing my curiosity regarding the situation.. many people have already rather sucessfully defended my right speak freely on these forums so please don't try to censor me

I was very surprised to hear that there is no requirement to justify a veto decision, as it does leave the risk that individuals may abuse the ability. I am not suggesting for a moment that that is the case here, hence my sugestion that the decision be explained in order to remove any such doubt from this clearly a heated discussion.

However, as you are not the only person to request I refrain from posting here I shall endeavour to keep my comments to a bare minimum

[Ankh Morpork]

[quote="Gitt"]I was very surprised to hear that there is no requirement to justify a veto decision, as it does leave the risk that individuals may abuse the ability. I am not suggesting for a moment that that is the case here, hence my sugestion that the decision be explained in order to remove any such doubt from this clearly a heated discussion.

However, as you are not the only person to request I refrain from posting here I shall endeavour to keep my comments to a bare minimum ]

Actually there is a requirement cos to be able to use the veto you needed to give a good reason why you use it. I didnt say that you could not post here, I only pointed out that in a sensitive discussion like this its better if the parts that are actually involve discuss it.

/Ankh

[Gitt]

Actually there is a requirement cos to be able to use the veto you needed to give a good reason why you use it.
/Ankh

I had been specifically told that this is not, and has never been, the case but I stand corrected.

Thanks Ankh

..and I know that you didn't say I couldn't post, you were kind enough to only state that you think I should stay out of it

[Satyn]

[quote="Gitt"]I have been specifically told that this is not, and has never been the case.

..and I know that you didn't say I couldn't post, you were kind enough to only state that you think I should stay out of it ]


It is the case, there was a veto and a good reason was given for it, acutally more than one reason. As from what I've been told you have not been a GM in NE alliance before so get your facts straight.

[Gitt]

It is the case, there was a veto and a good reason was given for it, acutally more than one reason. As from what I've been told you have not been a GM in NE alliance before so get your facts straight.

Please note I was stating what I had been told, no need to get defensive my dear

If a number of good reasons were provided then I'm sure there's no need for people to be arguing about it and everyone can move on happily