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I have to say...
LotRo is a very nice PvE game...
but I don't feel the same compulsion to log on like I did with M59, UO & DAoC.
I guess that's a good thing though really.
I wonder if it's something about the game or wether I've just finally grown out of MMORPG-Addiction?

You can't play 10 minutes even on the RP server without someone on some channel comparing it with WoW, which sucks, but I guess that's going to be true of all post-WoW games until the genre moves on once more. Really, if you want to spend all your gametime comparing the game you're playing to WoW why not just &%ç* off & play WoW instead?

The average player is still mature (30-35), but there are a certain number of ex-WoW-Kiddies playing now too. They seem very aggressive & their main aim in life seems to be to scam people & then make fun of their victims so I try to avoid them. I guess they'll turn up in every new game now too.

I can't think of anything else bad to say about LotRo. I'ts an excellent mix of questing, crafting & grinding with awesome graphics & an intact storyline, although the grinding is voluntary & not essential. You can solo or group depending on which you prefer &/or current mood, although soloing takes longer as the different classes complement each other very well.

WoW has a lot to answer for.

P.S. I got my first /tell from a gold seller a couple of days ago. Not just my first one in LotRo, but also my first one in 10-12 years of MMORPGing! When did that creep into MMORPGs exactly? Anyone know?

No PvP in that game?
I think a good MMORPG must be a mix between pve and pvp.

WoW

It has been going on for a while but it was VERY open in WoW

pepper wrote:No PvP in that game?
I think a good MMORPG must be a mix between pve and pvp.

There is
There's an area where you can play as a monster & kill ... players I guess
I never go there though so it doesn't really exist for me & I know nothing about it
I don't want to play PvP games any more.

OohhoO wrote:I have to say...
LotRo is a very nice PvE game...
but I don't feel the same compulsion to log on like I did with M59, UO & DAoC.
I guess that's a good thing though really.
I wonder if it's something about the game or wether I've just finally grown out of MMORPG-Addiction?

You can't play 10 minutes even on the RP server without someone on some channel comparing it with WoW, which sucks, but I guess that's going to be true of all post-WoW games until the genre moves on once more. Really, if you want to spend all your gametime comparing the game you're playing to WoW why not just &%ç* off & play WoW instead?

The average player is still mature (30-35), but there are a certain number of ex-WoW-Kiddies playing now too. They seem very aggressive & their main aim in life seems to be to scam people & then make fun of their victims so I try to avoid them. I guess they'll turn up in every new game now too.

I can't think of anything else bad to say about LotRo. I'ts an excellent mix of questing, crafting & grinding with awesome graphics & an intact storyline, although the grinding is voluntary & not essential. You can solo or group depending on which you prefer &/or current mood, although soloing takes longer as the different classes complement each other very well.

WoW has a lot to answer for.

P.S. I got my first /tell from a gold seller a couple of days ago. Not just my first one in LotRo, but also my first one in 10-12 years of MMORPGing! When did that creep into MMORPGs exactly? Anyone know?

BLASPHEMY!

GANDELF, KILL THIS INFIDEL. HE IS DEFYING THE LOTR HYPE MACHINE!

OohhoO wrote:I wonder if it's something about the game or wether I've just finally grown out of MMORPG-Addiction?

If you're feeling the same as me I can tell you exactly what it is. It's because there's been zero innovation in MMOs for about 8 years now. There's just not any fun in grinding to max level, grinding for items to compete, grinding for RvR rankings, grinding for crafting. All MMOs out now depend on the compulsion people have to achieve something, the problem is once you've achieved max level, best items etc. etc. so many times it's, well, not an achievement anymore. I liked DAoC RvR because it was fun outside the grind, but when characters get nerfed, or you can't compete without certain RvR gained abilities or you simply get bored of your class, the grind and compulsion to achieve is forced upon you again.

When someone makes an MMO that actually focusses on fun than the human desire to achieve and the obsession that comes with it and holds many people new (well new as in still in their first 5 years or so of playing them) to MMOs then maybe I'll care. Personally, I'm currently putting that compulsion to achieve to use by studying for another degree right now.

Xest wrote: If you're feeling the same as me I can tell you exactly what it is. It's because there's been zero innovation in MMOs for about 8 years now. There's just not any fun in grinding to max level, grinding for items to compete, grinding for RvR rankings, grinding for crafting. All MMOs out now depend on the compulsion people have to achieve something, the problem is once you've achieved max level, best items etc. etc. so many times it's, well, not an achievement anymore. I liked DAoC RvR because it was fun outside the grind, but when characters get nerfed, or you can't compete without certain RvR gained abilities or you simply get bored of your class, the grind and compulsion to achieve is forced upon you again.

You could well be right.

M59 was in at the conception of mmorpgs. It was exciting to just be in a graphic game with loads of other people at the same time.

UO was fun to fish & then cook & eat the fish you caught, or mine ore not knowing which one you'd get & then make weapons & armour with it. Being skill based & not level based was a big UO +. PKs made me stop playing official UO & start my own shard which was again exciting to write scripts & create new things for the players.

DAoC was fun cos of fighting for your realm against the evil Mids & Albs. I feel Mythic made a lot of mistakes with DAoC though:-
1) There were way too many addons, some of which changed the game in much too basic ways. Most of the addons had no real justification except "a few of the players need an addon to stop their grey cell getting bored on its own & we'll make even more cash at the same time". I really feel this made at least as many players cancel as it helped retain. Every time there was a new addon I felt the game died a little more.
2) Some of the changes were way too far reaching, especially the nerfs which were usually so over the top & heavy handed that they effectively destroyed entire classes & disadvantaged entire realms.
3) The introduction of Realm Abilities wasn't handled well, the game was better before them.
4) ToA made RvR too equipment-heavy.
5) NF changed RvR to PvP which effectively killed the appeal of RvR for me personally.
6) Extending RRs beyond RR5 was quite simply a mistake. Continually extending the RR limit further & further just made lower RRs less & less able to compete.
7) Mythic continually pandered to the whines of the "haves" who wanted even more, thus continually moving the "have nots" further & further down the ladder.

Has there been any real MMORPG innovation since DAoC?

I pretty much agree, LOTRO is very nice but I just can't face the grind any longer.

DAoC was different because there was fun to be had after the grind with RvR, until they introduced the grind for that too.

The only MMORPG I have played that does have a somewhat different feel is Eve-online. There isn't a "Max level" so you are always choosing what skill to train for yet, no one has all of the available skills they introduce more when anyone gets close.

It does still have some grinding to get better equipment, but on the whole I felt it was a lot less.

I tend to play it for 2-3 months and then take a break again, it is a bit too PvP orientated for me so in the 2-3 months I can do all of the PvE I can before getting bored again

(Just remembered Planetside, that was a bit different too, but only PvP so not a long term game for me)

I think nerfs are prevalent in all games.

As much as I loved UO, nerfs were one of the key reasons I eventually quit. When I spent 9 months and did 3000 treasure maps to reach LGM (100%) Cartography to be able to be one of only 3 people on the server able to do level 5 treasure maps only to have OSI nerf Cartography so that anyone could complete it in about 2 weeks 3months after really kinda sucked Was plenty of PvP nerfs too.

Even Planetside had balance issues, I can't remember team names but the red team's AA MAX was fucking disgustingly overpowered and never saw a nerf. Mythic probably was the worst nerfer out the lot, but it could also be just that they had the most complicated PvP out the lot, if UO's PvP had been as complex for example I'm sure it too would've had just as many balance issues!

OohhoO wrote:
P.S. I got my first /tell from a gold seller a couple of days ago. Not just my first one in LotRo, but also my first one in 10-12 years of MMORPGing! When did that creep into MMORPGs exactly? Anyone know?

well nana posted something about the gold sellers a few months ago and i said then that it didnt bother me that much. But it has changed now. They used to just pm you but now they stand in the big cities like Stormwind or Ironforge and just spam all the channels, if they notice they are getting ignored on one they go to the other channel. And that is seriously doing my head in. There must be something they can do to prevent things like that.

SWG
Im enjoying it
They actually made the game playable

sure there are tons of jedi but thats cuz the class rules!

Ive tried
Entertainer (boring)
Trader (holy hell thats boring but its a good 2ndry char to have when too lazy to concentrait)
Commando (throwing grenades..thats always fun!!)
Smuggler (they suck at combat but Han Solo is your newbie trainer!!)
Bounty Hunter (good ammo but i presume you need your own ship to be a fully competent BH and I hate flying in the game...)
Jedi (my main class...I wuv my jedi )