Nazis, etc

[Cryn]

Since it was closed but Banana suggested we discuss it here, I'd like to point out a couple of things:

So if he only wanted to use the facist portion of the many things the nazis did wrong why didn't he call her a facist mod? If you call someone a nazi you can't come back and say "Oh I didn't mean you were just that part of a nazi, you weren't the jew hating, mass murdering megalomaniacal part you were just the facist part" because otherwise there's no need for the term nazi in the first place when the term facist encompasses everything he wanted to say if that is the case.

Also there's a major difference between rudeness meant in jest and rudeness meant as aggression, but I'm sure you know that really and are just trying to be difficult

As everyone knows (whether they have studied or not) the meaning of a word is ENTIRELY made up of the perceived intended meaning. When called a nazi, everyone knows that people say it meaning "facist". The nazis are the most famous facists of recent history, and that's why it gets used.

Words don't get used because someone says, "oh look we need a word for facist, let's use nazi because that's all it could mean". They get used through much more complex reasons.

The POINT being, that if someone calls me a nazi I KNOW they don't mean murderous. I KNOW they mean facist. So if I choose to take offense at being called murderous, I am actually being dishonest.

What did homosexuals do to your parents, Peat

Hoping you are just having fun here, Pep, but it does relate to something. If I use the term homosexual as an insult, it implies there is something wrong with being homosexual, which is insulting to anyone of that orientation.

Now, I don't have a problem with someone using that term, since we all know what they mean. But then I don't have a problem with someone using the term nazi, since we all know what that means.

What I thought was the problem in this case is that criticism directed at a mod was stamped on heavily, but then another mod can use offensive terms at will. I feel oppressed to know that the mods are like a gang who go around beating up people and intimidating them for the crime of *GASP* criticising a pooint made by another mod.

Why can't we all just have the same freedoms. Surely there is something wrong when forums receive this much discussion regarding the moderation? It's not just me making comments about this.

[Xest]

As everyone knows (whether they have studied or not) the meaning of a word is ENTIRELY made up of the perceived intended meaning. When called a nazi, everyone knows that people say it meaning "facist". The nazis are the most famous facists of recent history, and that's why it gets used.

Words don't get used because someone says, "oh look we need a word for facist, let's use nazi because that's all it could mean". They get used through much more complex reasons.

The POINT being, that if someone calls me a nazi I KNOW they don't mean murderous. I KNOW they mean facist. So if I choose to take offense at being called murderous, I am actually being dishonest.

Uhuh, I'm sure people who call the NF in the UK Nazi's is only because they want to call them facist, it's nothing to do with the racism portion of the NF's agenda for example. Sure you make think Nazi = Facism, but not everyone does, so don't even try and begin to suggest they do - the thread itself was proof enough of that.

What I thought was the problem in this case is that criticism directed at a mod was stamped on heavily, but then another mod can use offensive terms at will.

See the problem is that I didn't use it offensively, I pointed out that Jouzu was living in some little homosexual world which is fair and relevant to the comments Jouzu made towards me and they don't in anyway imply that him living in a homosexual world is a bad thing. What is somewhat worrying however is that you yourself are instantly implying that being called homosexual is an insult - that suggests that you're the one with the problem. It's a little unfair that you instantly assume that "homosexuality" is some kind of insult.

[Tare]

Now, I'll grant you that the mods seem a very close-knit group, unlike the old days where Etharion and Lairiodd were our mods and didn't show this group behaviour.
The reason why it seems different than in the old days (ah memories), in my opinion, is because the moderators are amongst the most active posters on this forum. Any thread made on this forum is bound to be visited by multiple mods.
On top of that, the mods on this forum carry their heart on their tongue, Etharion and Lairiodd seemed to be a bit more reluctant to voice their personal opinion. Personally I don't see a problem with this, it's a decision apparently made between the mods that it's ok to actively participate in debate, with the occasional confrontational position.

About the use of the term nazi, or homosexual, I find anyone using one of these terms, or any personal insult in general a sad, laughable and miserable person, someone who has to resort to personal cos he can't think of a valid response to the debate.

Oh and if you're referring to the homosexual in the posts between Xest and Heta, that's just their thing

edit: oh, just so you don't take this the wrong way, I don't think homosexuality is an insult, I'm just referring to homosexuality because it was intended as an insult (jokingly).

[Belisar]

Personally I would prefer people not to use terms like Nazi as there is no way of knowing how the reader will interpret it. That is where the issue is, not how it is intended but how it is interpreted.

I guess it is all about balance and degree, we could potentially argue about someone saying so and so is mental or a daft bugger although I would not regard these as in the same league.

Got no problem with mods having views and posting them. I would guess part of the reason they were chosen as mods was because they are here regularly.

I do think there are times when the mods have been a bit heavy handed and a bit quick to warn or even post a note saying 'oi be careful'. I would tend to let things run a bit longer before jumping in, often the other posters here will actually make their own feelings known about comments or flames if they actually get a chance. It always seemed to me prydwen was quite well self moderated, there are a lot of sensible and calm people here and often they let the hot headed among us know where the line is.

[Lieva]

hmm

when prince harry wore a nazi uniform to a fancy dress ball not one person said he was being facist but that he was outwardly supporting one of the most vileist nastyest things to ever have occured in the history of the planet

(i say ONE of them - there more more and some far more recent)

Fact of the matter is being called a nazi in insult can be classed as one of the nastyest ones out there. Kinda like being called klu-klux-klan

However saying that

You can also say that the nazi were one of the most organised people in the history of the planet either and their fanitic dedication to their cause was something not seen before however most would say that is not what the word nazi means

[Kallima]

I'm with Banana on this. To me personally the word nazi is associated with a lot more than fascist. For me it is associated with events and a way of rascist thinking that I find abhorrent. Standing against this cost me my parents, since they disowned me for not sharing their beliefs. I don't think its an insult to use lightly.

In fact, this is why I feel its best not to casually use insults. A word may be trivial to you but deeply offensive to someone else.

[Gitt]

I could go into a political history lesson explaining the difference between the Nazi movement which rebuilt the German city state in the wake of the first world war and the Fascist, Racist and Genocidal actions of the Third Reich under the leadership of Adolf Hitler but I really don't think either apply here.

I dislike the use of the terms Nazi and Fascist as most people fail to understand the meaning of both.

With regard to the over-invasive influence being exerted upon this forum by a select group of individuals I would favour the term "small minded, imature self-absorbed bully"...

...but thats just a personal opinion of course <grins>

<edit> sorry.. I missed "Hipocritical"... I shall beat myself soundly for the omission

[Satyn]

Since it was closed but Banana suggested we discuss it here, I'd like to point out a couple of things:



As everyone knows (whether they have studied or not) the meaning of a word is ENTIRELY made up of the perceived intended meaning. When called a nazi, everyone knows that people say it meaning "facist". The nazis are the most famous facists of recent history, and that's why it gets used.

Words don't get used because someone says, "oh look we need a word for facist, let's use nazi because that's all it could mean". They get used through much more complex reasons.

The POINT being, that if someone calls me a nazi I KNOW they don't mean murderous. I KNOW they mean facist. So if I choose to take offense at being called murderous, I am actually being dishonest.



Hoping you are just having fun here, Pep, but it does relate to something. If I use the term homosexual as an insult, it implies there is something wrong with being homosexual, which is insulting to anyone of that orientation.

Now, I don't have a problem with someone using that term, since we all know what they mean. But then I don't have a problem with someone using the term nazi, since we all know what that means.

What I thought was the problem in this case is that criticism directed at a mod was stamped on heavily, but then another mod can use offensive terms at will. I feel oppressed to know that the mods are like a gang who go around beating up people and intimidating them for the crime of *GASP* criticising a pooint made by another mod.

Why can't we all just have the same freedoms. Surely there is something wrong when forums receive this much discussion regarding the moderation? It's not just me making comments about this.

You have the right to your opinion like everyone else peat, just like everyone else has the right to not agree with your opinion.
If you feel that I shouldnt take it the way I did fair enough but dont use the fact that I banned him for a very obvious reason to lash out again to the other mods. This was something I did on my own and with nobody else involved. So if you want to critisize someone pick me.

About the homosexual thing ... as far as i'm concerned there is nothing wrong with being gay, hell i'm bi-sexual myself. The word gay or homosexual isnt a flameword at all. (IMO)

[Satyn]

I could go into a political history lesson explaining the difference between the Nazi movement which rebuilt the German city state in the wake of the first world war and the Fascist, Racist and Genocidal actions of the Third Reich under the leadership of Adolf Hitler but I really don't think either apply here.

I dislike the use of the terms Nazi and Fascist as most people fail to understand the meaning of both.

With regard to the over-invasive influence being exerted upon this forum by a select group of individuals I would favour the term "small minded, imature self-absorbed bully"...

...but thats just a personal opinion of course <grins>

aaah hun you're back. I missed your smart comments. welcome back dear.

[Gitt]

aaah hun you're back.

I never left.. just had better things to poke sticks at