Nhs

[Lieva]

if he pay taxes, why shouldnt he be alloved to have a surgery on the NHS?

iirc he had only recently moved to england

im not to sure on the exact details and i spose the papers could have been going overboard but i think the operation was one which could have waited also - i.e not emergancy.

[Xest]

I don't know what your understanding of teaching is but essentially it is not as simple as you make out.

Girlfriend is doing her PGCE and I work with teachers day in day out.

On the issue of the computers. It was after all you who brought it up and you who failed to cite the data on just how many use them and for what. Maybe we don't know? Maybe what your saying about how they use them is an unfair generalisation? If you don't have the data - and the burden of proof is on you to back your arguement up. If your going to generalise to make a point about wastage you really should have more than anecdotal evidence...

Last year through to May this year I was involved in rolling out broadband to 171 schools, we're short staffed and I had to do it myself, it required IP changes at every single school, maybe schools still run static IPs (It's not upto us to decide whether they switch to DHCP or not sadly), therefore the fact I had to go round a few thousand machines - curriculum machines, administration machines and laptops - gives me a damn good idea of what school computers are used for, what kind of specs are out there and so on - if anyone has a good idea of what school computers and laptops get used for I sure as hell do.

Ok lets turn it around a bit. Since you seem to really hate this waste.... Maybe they should not have laptops. Maybe it would be a good thing? Perhaps then when I go to see my sister she will not be sitting to 10 and 11pm at night working on her laptop? All at the tax payers expense. Such a wonderful gift from the taxpayers to make sure she performs after all what better way to make someone feel as though they owe you something than to give them a 'gift'. After all its such a well paid and easy job. Just maybe your right Xest.

As stated above I've been to a lot of schools and met a lot of teachers, apart from the fact primary schools are almost entirely empty gone 4pm other than the odd teacher offering after school activies, the head and the secretaries the majority of the ones I've spoken to at primary level accept their job is pretty easy. Certainly it's a different story at secondary level where there's vastly more homework to mark and a lot, lot more pressure on ensuring kids acheive well in their GCSEs than there is on lower exams (although of course there is still some pressure). One primary school I went to is due to trial new times this year, by simply not having a lunchtime, starting 30mins earlier (iirc, maybe an hour earlier..) and finishing at 1:30pm. There aren't many jobs out there that give you a one off £3k - £10k payment when starting the job, let you work 8am to 1:30pm (or hell, even 8:30am to 3:30pm at that), give you over 3months off work a year, a decent pension and then on top of all that give you a perfectly respectable full time wage on top.

[Lairiodd]

so how would you improve it? It all well and good scolding about it but what alternative is there. They tried the internal market and now we have the postcode lottery....

It's not a market if people can't pick which hospital they go to. I assume that the reason that it is a postcode lottery is because you have to go to a local hospital.

[Lairiodd]

Yes, that I know... what I'm complaining about is, that German insurance companies are cutting on services to satisfy their share holders... we are not paying an insurance to give our money to share holders. I could take a match and heat my room with the money... then at least I would profit from it...

Then find another insurance company. If there isn't one, then the problem is likely in the cost to provide the service in the first place. So you need to be complaining about the hospitals.

[Lairiodd]

Is kinda like communism, looks excellent on paper, just impossible to put in use due to people being a factor then, and people are greedy by nature.

OK comparing NHS with communism might be a bit extreme but I hope you understand my point. There will always be people that will take what ever advantage of the system that is in use. But there is also (I hope more) people who do work for a living, pay there taxes etc, and should they be punished if they happen to get into an accident and will be in need for NHS just cause there are a few that abuse the system?

No its a good analogy. The problem is what economists call the tragedy of the commons. If you have a field that everyone in the village shares for grazing their cattle, then they will all put to many cattle on the field and ruin it. OTOH, if everyone is given a section of the field as their property, then they won't overgraze and everyone is better off since the field is not overgrazed. If you break the link so people don't get the negatives from their actions, then prices go up. For example, if you went into a shop and someone else is paying, then you will tend to buy a more expensive thing than you would normally. There needs to be a way for pricing info to get back to the consumer.

[Sharkith]

Last year through to May this year I was involved in rolling out broadband to 171 schools, we're short staffed and I had to do it myself, it required IP changes at every single school, maybe schools still run static IPs (It's not upto us to decide whether they switch to DHCP or not sadly), therefore the fact I had to go round a few thousand machines - curriculum machines, administration machines and laptops - gives me a damn good idea of what school computers are used for, what kind of specs are out there and so on - if anyone has a good idea of what school computers and laptops get used for I sure as hell do.

So you were watching teachers at home playing on their computers and doing no work? All you give as evidence is experience of working in the schools - that is anecdotal no matter how much you try to dress it up. There is no justification for your generalisation no matter what you think. Where is the data Xest - there is no point trying to hide behind what is basically your opinion. I just cannot see how you can say you 'know' what the laptops are used for - zero data so only opinion. You would have been better sticking to the issues with the software and the technical waste that comes from the insensitive bureaucratic initiatives from the DoE.

As stated above I've been to a lot of schools and met a lot of teachers, apart from the fact primary schools are almost entirely empty gone 4pm other than the odd teacher offering after school activies, the head and the secretaries the majority of the ones I've spoken to at primary level accept their job is pretty easy. Certainly it's a different story at secondary level where there's vastly more homework to mark and a lot, lot more pressure on ensuring kids acheive well in their GCSEs than there is on lower exams (although of course there is still some pressure). One primary school I went to is due to trial new times this year, by simply not having a lunchtime, starting 30mins earlier (iirc, maybe an hour earlier..) and finishing at 1:30pm. There aren't many jobs out there that give you a one off £3k - £10k payment when starting the job, let you work 8am to 1:30pm (or hell, even 8:30am to 3:30pm at that), give you over 3months off work a year, a decent pension and then on top of all that give you a perfectly respectable full time wage on top.

So why then Xest is there a national shortage of teachers? If it is really that good - why are people not flocking to work there?

Hell if it is that good I will give up my job right now and go ahead and rush in there. The reason is that Xest no matter what you say there is a lot more to teaching than the hours teachers do in schools. Citing that as evidence - like I said above is simply not good enough. I still don't see any justification for your point. Most teachers I know and I know a fair few work well into most evenings. As for the summer holidays - its about the only real perk they have.

[Sharkith]

It's not a market if people can't pick which hospital they go to. I assume that the reason that it is a postcode lottery is because you have to go to a local hospital.

kind of - and the local hospitals vary dramatically in both quality and range of service. If a service is not available then you usually have to travel some distance to get what might be a basic service in other systems.

[Lairiodd]

The cheats are a red herring talking about them can lead to all sorts of problems because you end up stereotyping groups in society who are supposed to 'cheat'.

The real issue for me is that for every pound spent on the NHS over 50p goes on administration - start talking about this and you can begin to see where the problem lies.

That is not necessarily a problem (though in alot of cases it is). For example, if you give a surgeon a filing assistant, maybe he can perform 20% more surgeries a month. If the assistant is not highly paid, then it might be worth it. OTOH, giving every surgeon an assistant would not work.

[Sharkith]

That is not necessarily a problem (though in alot of cases it is). For example, if you give a surgeon a filing assistant, maybe he can perform 20% more surgeries a month. If the assistant is not highly paid, then it might be worth it. OTOH, giving every surgeon an assistant would not work.

well one example that is very well known is that if you live in North Wales you have to drive 3 hours for emergency dental treatment. Emergency dental treatment in 80% of cases results in the prescription of antibiotics. But you have to drive that nonetheless - which is basically a 6 hour round trip. So when I say lottery I am referring to basic services not the very expensive secondary care - that can be provided much less expensively in France for example - in some instances. It is why they have been running pilot schemes with private providers.

[Xest]

So you were watching teachers at home playing on their computers and doing no work? All you give as evidence is experience of working in the schools - that is anecdotal no matter how much you try to dress it up. There is no justification for your generalisation no matter what you think. Where is the data Xest - there is no point trying to hide behind what is basically your opinion. I just cannot see how you can say you 'know' what the laptops are used for - zero data so only opinion. You would have been better sticking to the issues with the software and the technical waste that comes from the insensitive bureaucratic initiatives from the DoE.

Erm, it's pretty obvious that various games and links on their desktops that their laptops are used for more than just work, I don't have to watch what they do at home to see that they have stuff on their laptop that is clearly and undoubtedly totally unrelated to work. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious how you can tell what people use their laptops for just by seeing the contents of the desktop/start menu/favourites but obviously that flew right over your head before you decided to go off on one making incorrect assumptions about what I know about teachers laptop useage habits.

So why then Xest is there a national shortage of teachers? If it is really that good - why are people not flocking to work there?

The shortage is actually decreasing in the primary area and that's what I've been talking about, I haven't denied at all that secondary is a very different beast and that's where the shortage issues lie. It essentially comes down to the fact that nowadays there's less people going into maths and science etc. therefore those that do have a much wider choice of job opportunity and whilst being a primary school teacher is definetely a pretty easy going job (again backed up by the fact the shortage of primary school teachers is decreasing pretty well). Those with science/maths degrees can go and get very high paid jobs, but this is only two subject areas (well it does extend into other areas, to a lesser extent, the next most prominent would be languages). I'm not sure how you can bitch at me about facts I bring up, yet you're the one who makes a broad comment about teacher shortages when the teacher shortages are actually very specific subject areas that just happen to offer higher pay in industry.

Again by your claims that teachers have lots of hours of work to do outside school hours I can only assume you're talking about secondary school teachers because the vast majority of primary school teachers have little to no work to do outside work hours other than (mostly) paid voluntary work.