Nhs

A forum for anyhing not game related.
Post Reply

Should the NHS be disbanded?

Poll ended at Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:59 pm

No Opinnion/Not decided
7
27%
No Opinnion/Not decided
14
54%
No Opinnion/Not decided
5
19%
 
Total votes: 26

Xest
Emerald Rider
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:00 pm

Post by Xest »

Heta wrote:Drugs and NHS have very much to do with each other so kinda hard to split it, people who abuse drugs will get sick etc, biggest problem with equal rights for everyone is that you always want to exclude some from that right. Sure free health care for everyone unless you have done this and that, the big question is where to draw a line, if to draw a line and how to be able to keep the line?

Is kinda like communism, looks excellent on paper, just impossible to put in use due to people being a factor then, and people are greedy by nature.

OK comparing NHS with communism might be a bit extreme but I hope you understand my point. There will always be people that will take what ever advantage of the system that is in use. But there is also (I hope more) people who do work for a living, pay there taxes etc, and should they be punished if they happen to get into an accident and will be in need for NHS just cause there are a few that abuse the system?

This post is not me agreeing or disagreeing with any of the once before, just me typing :p
Problem is though, those working hard are already being punished by having to pay extortionate income tax + national insurance to support those abusing the system. As I said already though, the NHS is one of only many services that's abused and money is wasted on, there's an awful lot of things that could be cut back on to lower taxes.

One of my pet peeves is what goes on in schools, my job partly involves supporting schools IT and there's so many things that are poorly thought etc. For example, the goverment offers money to schools for puchasing software, maybe 10 - 50 software titles per school, the problem is when thinking up this scheme no one has considered who is going to roll out 50 PCs of software on 100 PCs baring in mind the majority of schools still use older RM networks running anything from Windows 95 with no real method of centrally rolling out software. It's all very giving schools money to use purely on software, but not providing them with money to pay for rolling it out and supporting it means it's ended up sat under the school secretaries desk doing nothing in the majority of cases. Then of course there's laptops for teachers, quite who's idea it was to try and pay for laptops for every teacher in the UK I'm not sure, ignoring the fact that some of the older generation teachers are scared to touch/use them, and the ones that got them free so don't care about them and break them regularly as well as the ones who let the kids pluck them to peices and jab the weak screens with pencils and stuff it begs the question, why can't teachers of all people who get a pretty decent salary buy their own laptops? thousands upon thousands of schools multiplied by an average of what, 20 - 30 teachers per school multiplied by £700 for a laptop + software. Even in our small catchment area it's £3.5mill of taxpayers money that just doesn't need to be spent.

Anyhow, I'm ranting now but my point is that you have to bare in mind that the NHS is one of only hundreds of money leaks in the UK.
OFFICER XEST - PROTECTING YOU AGAINST FORUM CRIME
Image
Che Xefan, el presidente.

pikeh
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Canterbury/Bath

Post by pikeh »

Xest wrote:, why can't teachers of all people who get a pretty decent salary by their own laptops?
.

i think thats a really good point.
Piikeh/SH/r40/rr4X
<White Rose>
R.I.P Severance

User avatar
Heta
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:24 am

Post by Heta »

Agree that it may be poorly designed and a lot of flaws, don't think a NHS should be removed tho, but reformed to work better. As said there are so many money leaks that its stupid, papers to fill in to fill in other papers to give to a guy that gives to another that etc etc.

Just imagine how low taxes you could have if there actually weren't anyone trying to cheat the system, and everyone actually paying there taxes, and the people working with it actually doing there job instead of trying to get others to do there job. But, its people we talk about so cheating the system, trying to skip to pay taxes, getting people to do your job will be something that will always be.
Woho! I got a 360 \o/
Image

User avatar
Heta
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:24 am

Post by Heta »

oww btw so people don't start misunderstanding me, I'm not from the UK, just expressing my opinions
Woho! I got a 360 \o/
Image

User avatar
Sharkith
Posts: 2910
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:08 pm

Post by Sharkith »

Xest wrote:why can't teachers of all people who get a pretty decent salary buy their own laptops?
are you aware of the national pay scales ?

Have a look here at the basic starting salary:

http://www.teachers.org.uk/salary/pay_calc_2005_ew.php

Now deduct tax and NI (they pay it too) and figure out just what proportion of their salary your asking them to give up to do their job. What would you say to your company if they told you to go buy your own computer for your work? I can imagine a nice polite Xest style reply.
Na Fianna Dragun

Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter

Eve online - Kaminjosvig.

User avatar
Heta
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:24 am

Post by Heta »

Teachers dont need a computer for work, the need to get back the right to administer corporal punishment!
Woho! I got a 360 \o/
Image

User avatar
Sharkith
Posts: 2910
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:08 pm

Post by Sharkith »

Heta wrote:Teachers dont need a computer for work, the need to get back the right to administer corporal punishment!
lol - maybe thats what happened to your teeth Heta - did you get hit in the face with a few dusters? ;)
Na Fianna Dragun

Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter

Eve online - Kaminjosvig.

User avatar
Sharkith
Posts: 2910
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:08 pm

Post by Sharkith »

Heta wrote:Agree that it may be poorly designed and a lot of flaws, don't think a NHS should be removed tho, but reformed to work better. As said there are so many money leaks that its stupid, papers to fill in to fill in other papers to give to a guy that gives to another that etc etc.

Just imagine how low taxes you could have if there actually weren't anyone trying to cheat the system, and everyone actually paying there taxes, and the people working with it actually doing there job instead of trying to get others to do there job. But, its people we talk about so cheating the system, trying to skip to pay taxes, getting people to do your job will be something that will always be.
The cheats are a red herring talking about them can lead to all sorts of problems because you end up stereotyping groups in society who are supposed to 'cheat'.

The real issue for me is that for every pound spent on the NHS over 50p goes on administration - start talking about this and you can begin to see where the problem lies.
Na Fianna Dragun

Karak-Eight Peaks, Kiera ze Witch Hunter

Eve online - Kaminjosvig.

Xest
Emerald Rider
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:00 pm

Post by Xest »

Sharkith wrote:are you aware of the national pay scales ?

Have a look here at the basic starting salary:

http://www.teachers.org.uk/salary/pay_calc_2005_ew.php

Now deduct tax and NI (they pay it too) and figure out just what proportion of their salary your asking them to give up to do their job. What would you say to your company if they told you to go buy your own computer for your work? I can imagine a nice polite Xest style reply.
But the absolute lowest grades are for teachers doing their PGCE on the job in a primary school - i.e. still in training and doing an easy job. Teaching at primary school level leaves you with next to no homework to mark, means you can start at 8:30 and go home at 3:30 and also leaves you time to do lesson preparation at work. If we're going to take extremes then I could equally point you to the fact a headteacher can earn £99,000+ per year, you also have to remember that teachers get over 3months a year holidays so yes it's a very good wage all around for the amount of time they work. Again, on top of that you're forgetting teachers can boost their wage well with additional responsibilities, for example, offering to become the schools ICT coordinator, or doing a lunchtime homework club, or after school sports. Also you're assuming that a teacher even needs to buy a laptop for their job, every school will have PCs they can use without needing the LFTs (Laptops for Teachers) and let's face it, who doesn't have a computer at home now? - It's not a simply a question of asking them to buy one for work. On that note also do you have any idea how many of them use their laptop, bought by taxpayers intended to help them with their job but instead used for home use and never remember to bring them into school for work? I do and quite honestly it's sick that so much tax payers money is paying for a laptop for a teacher to use for home. A much better option would be to offer a way for teachers to get laptops cheap - perhaps subsidise them, but right now handing out free laptops to teachers leaves so many unused, so many abused and damaged because they got them free and so many used for anything but work.

Personally I think the goverment should at least be spending the money on getting rid of the tatty old Celeron 300 P75 machines that still litter schools and replacing them with new XP boxes - something that'll actually benefit the kids, rather than the rediculous LFT scheme.
OFFICER XEST - PROTECTING YOU AGAINST FORUM CRIME
Image
Che Xefan, el presidente.

User avatar
Heta
Emerald Rider
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:24 am

Post by Heta »

[quote="Sharkith"]lol - maybe thats what happened to your teeth Heta - did you get hit in the face with a few dusters? ]

no, 2x bails on the skate and one kick in the face
Woho! I got a 360 \o/
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic”