Planning a smoking area?

[<ankh>]

Is smoking a must? Answer: No.
Are cars/Planes a must in the modern society: Yes.

/Ankh

[OohhoO]

Is smoking a must? Answer: No.
Are cars/Planes a must in the modern society: Yes.

/Ankh

1) Is that really true?
2) Aha! So there are things which are more important than the fact that they murder "inncocent" bystanders, like holidays on the cote d'azur, business meetings in Brussels (which could just as easily be done virtually), practicing dropping bombs on other "innocent" bystanders, etc etc etc...

[Kesxex]

In the UK, the tobacco industry generated over £10bn in tax revenue in 1998, enough to pay for three quarters of the Education and Employment Budget.

The industry directly employs 9,800 people and supports about 138,500 other jobs, according to the UK's Tobacco Manufacturers Association.

"Tobacco growing is a key element of the economy in many developing countries in Africa and South America," it adds.

As long as the government is taking the benefits in terms of taxes and classifies cigarettes as legal the whole discussion around smokers is hypocritical. (And personally I think it is a first step towards a witch hunt and prosecution like the McCarthy era in American politics and the introduction of Jews as the main culprits in the establishing years of the Nazi regime.)

IF the UK government really want to stop the damaging effects of smoking (which I don't deny) then tobacco would have to be made a minimum of Class B drug (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1615851.stm).
The reason it is not is that if a law would be drawn up then the government would be in liability to
- establish changes in the tobacco industry
- increase the taxes for the working population very very high
- provide a plan for every smoker to be cured of his addiction
- sort out the pension plan (let's face it - less smoking = more older people = more demand on the pension plan)

No government in the world is able to execute this plan hence the smoking ban in public places (which I support). Trying to wean off more and more smokers off their habit (to be paid out of the smoker's pocket and not the government) is a step by step way.
Making smoking look bad (which again I support in terms of getting kids not into the habit) is another way

To make smokers to be the new witches of this era (which is amply demonstrated in this thread alone) and displaying smoking as a big social stigma (as people try to link every possible death to smoking effects) creates a us versus them social environment.
This in turn is in a civilised society simply not advisable as it creates a two part culture (see the Black Movement in the USA, the McCarthy era and again the Nazi time in Germany as the most obvious examples) which can (and will) create violence.

This is the thing I see that is forthcoming within the next ten years if smokers are treated as second level citizens (or even worse as non-citizens).
The fact that some people with a zeal that befits an inquisitor during the witch hunts in Europe go after smokers just doesn't help society - it just creates violence.

And that is something that a government has the moral duty to put down. As of now I believe that I end up as persona non grata in a country where liberal beliefs and democracy are taken as granted values in life which are only applied to persons conforming with "standard" behaviour.
Again (and sorry for the repeat) the Nazis have shown how far a government that wants to go that far can be taken.

As George Santayana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santayana) said:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

[<ankh>]

1) Is that really true?
2) Aha! So there are things which are more important than the fact that they murder "inncocent" bystanders, like holidays on the cote d'azur, business meetings in Brussels (which could just as easily be done virtually), practicing dropping bombs on other "innocent" bystanders, etc etc etc...

1.) Your an idiot if you think anything else.
2.) Come up with an answer to get by these things and Ill support it. But as it is, there is none. Smoking is both bad for the smoker and bystanders, it also stuck on objects making them smell and giving them bad colors. Most people start smoking because their friends/relatives do it and not cos they belive its an important part of life. I also havent met many smokers who havent atleast ONCE said that they would like to quit smoking due to various reasons.

/Ankh

[OohhoO]

Are there any queers in the audience tonight?
Get them up against the wall.

There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me
Get him up against the wall.

That one looks jewish, & that one's a coon!
Who let all of that riffraff into the room?

There's one SMOKING a joint, & another with SPOTS!!!
If I had my way, I'd have all of them SHOT!

& on that note I'll go out onto my balcony & shorten everyone on the planets lifespan by a fraction of a nanosecond so we can carry on discriminating against the little people & continue ignoring the really important issues on the planet because that might be uncomfortable for the people earning vast amounts of money every second whilst other people starve to death.

[Lieva]

It could as easily be the methane out of farts except for some reason if the public health bods tried that one people would laugh at them...

i could easily believe my dads trumps kill people ..

[Gandelf]

Smoking definitely kills, no ifs or buts. If you smoke you are more likely to contract cancer than any other group in society. End of story. You don't need scientific evidence, because it's blatantly obvious that smoking causes cancer... just take a look at all the wheezing 50-year-old olds with Oxygen masks in hospital! My Dad died from lung cancer, aged 61. He smoked. It was smoking that killed him, full stop! He didn't live long enough to enjoy retirement. But, people have the right to smoke. If they wan't to kill themselves, that's their choice. People are better educated nowadays than my Dad, so there's no excuse!

However, apart from passive smoking causing cancer (which has been proven scientifically beyond doubt), in confined public places, smoking is definitely wrong from the point of view that it makes the clothing of non-smokers stink of stale tobacco. Who do smokers think they are?! Me breathing clean air as a non-smoker does not make the clothing of smokers stink of clean air, yet smokers think they have the right to make my clothes smell!

It's not so much "pick on smokers" time, but "give non smokers a chance" time. Smoking tobacco was introduced at the end of the 16th Century in England. Non-smokers have had to suffer for 400 years! Smoking was always considered the fashionable thing to do well into the 20th Century. That's one reason why smokers think they have some sort of right to smoke tobacco today, because that's what they've grown up with. Now things are turning round in favour of non-smokers, for the first time in 400 years! Is that so unfair? If smokers want to smoke, then it should be done private. Smoking in public is definitely wrong and cannot be defended in any way, shape or form. It's time for smokers to realise that... they've had their way, now it's time for non-smokers to have their say.

I'm sorry if that sounds antagonising to smokers, but that can't be helped where the truth is concerned.

[Lieva]

The difference with McD's and off course the other favourite, alcohol is that by consuming these products you aren't forcing anyone else to suffer the side effects. I could eat 20 McDonalds meals a day and it wouldn't have any effect on the guy sat across from me but if I smoked just 1 cigarette it would - the same goes for alcohol.

ummm actually...

With the alcohol..well..i have an alcoholic parent. it does affect other people.

and tbh i suffer more ill effects with the alcohol than the fact she smokes

[Gandelf]

Thing is, alcohol in moderation is beneficial. It can help to lower cholesterol. Drinking one glass of red wine a day is beneficial, because it contains anti-oxidants. Whereas smoking has no beneficial effects at all. Even if you only smoke say 10 cigarettes a week, it's still causing harm, because let's face it, the human body was not designed to inhale tobacco smoke.

[Lieva]

If smokers want to smoke, then it should be done private. Smoking in public is definitely wrong and cannot be defended in any way, shape or form. It's time for smokers to realise that... they've had their way, now it's time for non-smokers to have their say.

Whilst i agree with that, its the way people are going about it.

Just because a person smokes doesnt make them bad or a murderer but clearly, theyre are getting those labels.

A simple 'ok smoke but dont force others to do so' is fine without the 'omg you smoke youre gonna kill me and you stink' drama we have atm.