Are laws more important than individual rights?

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Kallima

Post by Kallima »

Banana wrote:Its easy to blame one thing these days. Be it Tv , Films, Religion, computer games. Lets look at the whole picture :p
Very true. Computer game players have been known to commit terrible crimes in real life such as murder. People have actually pointed the finger as a result and said computer games are bad and should be banned.

Anything widespread enough to include a large number of people will include some who will do bad things. This includes popular religions, toothpaste, and though I really hate to say this even people who like chocolate. :'(

There are people who say they are Christian who are paedophiles or violent to children despite this being rather against what Jesus Christ is reported to have said in the New Testament. There are also people who are rabidly anti religious who abuse children. Basically some people aren't nice.

Take a game example. Suppose someone uses cheats/steals stuff/hacks accounts. Do you automatically say their guild is to blame, even if they were only in the guild for a week, the guild rules ban this behaviour, the guild immediately throws them out, and says they do not want people who behave like that in their guild. If the guild rules say that they expect their members to cheat and steal, then certainly blame the guild.
Xest wrote:We don't need hope
That is one of the scariest things I have ever read on this forum :dairylea:

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Post by Lairiodd »

Gandelf wrote:But why do people always point the finger at Christianity? Is it because it's "cool" to do so? Is it because people hear other people slag Christianity off and so they don't want to feel out of place? I think people slag of Christianity because they are safe to do so... they know that there are no Christian fundamentalist governments in the world that can pronounce "Jehad" on those who oppose Christianity. If people said the same thing about Islam, then you can bet that an Islamic government somewhere would pronounce a holy war on those who oppose Islam.
Yup, that is what is bad about the whole Danish cartoon thing. If it was about Christians, there wouldn't have been anything said.

I think it is not just Christians, it is all of western culture. Some people don't like the fact that our system is just better than other economic systems and that western values are expanding. Also, there is alot of guilt about poor people in the world as if it is our fault.

Also, if you note whenever they compare Christianity to Islam, they compare modern Islam to the way christianity was centuries ago. It is not a like to like comparison.
The very fact that people can say what they like about Christianity, must surely say something about Christianity, i.e. you are free to become a Christian or not and if you choose not to then you won't have a death-sentence pronounced on you, like other religions.
Well, I think it is mainly Islam.

The problem is that multiculturalism has been taken to far. Respecting other cultures should require than those other cultures respect you back (or at the very least don't call for your destruction
But, they couldn't have, because a large population of Jews exists in the USA. The Nazis were close to developing their own atom bomb, which would undoubtedly have been used on the USA, even if the USA had not got involved in WW2. If the Nazis had dropped an atom bomb on the USA, the American government would have had to surrender, which in turn would have meant that the Nazis would have gone to America.
I think you underestimate Americans, I think they would have fought back, even against nukes. Also, making nukes is hard, especially when they were new and the US is far from Germany, so the Americans could sink ships. ICBMs were not around when nukes were first developed, so to nuke a city you need to get a bomber to drop the bomb. Germans had a headstart with respect to rockets, but faced with nukes, I am sure the US would have catched up.

I think the Germans were around 2-3 years behind the US wrt nukes and wouldn't have had the bomb by 1945. However, if the war ended early, then they could have committed more resources.
Democracy is corrupt. In the UK news we've seen how people have been given peerages because they donated money to the Labour party. Also UK democracy is not really a democracy anyway, because it's based on the "first past the post" principle. What we should have is a proportional representation system, where every party is represented according to the percentage of votes for each political party. As it is now, the Labour party can pass bills easily, because they were "first past the post". That's not deomocracy, it's dictatorship.
Well, levels of democracy are not binary, it ranges from dictatorship (0) to some kind of direct democracy (full). The UK has a long history of democracy and FPTP is alot better than no vote what so ever. PR would improve things, but not as much as switching from a dictatorship to a FPTP system does.
There can never be true democracy anyway (or any true political system), because there will always be politicians who are "in it" for their own benefit and who couldn't care less about the electorate.
It doesn't really matter why politicians are "in it" as long as the electoral system keeps them reasonably in check.
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Post by Lieva »

Kallima wrote:That is one of the scariest things I have ever read on this forum :dairylea:
that was taken soo out of context ^^

he said we dont need hope to travel and stuff.
Not that we dont need hope full stop ^^
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Post by Gandelf »

Satyn wrote:Give me a good example

Well, I'm not entirely certain about this, but weren't the Nazis non-religious? Didn't they believe in Neo-Paganism? I think I'm correct in saying that the Nazis were not Christians. Yes, the German people were a Christian nation at the time, but I don't think the Nazis were as a political party.

So if that's true, then that's one good example.

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Post by Xest »

Gandelf wrote:Well, I'm not entirely certain about this, but weren't the Nazis non-religious? Didn't they believe in Neo-Paganism? I think I'm correct in saying that the Nazis were not Christians. Yes, the German people were a Christian nation at the time, but I don't think the Nazis were as a political party.

So if that's true, then that's one good example.
The Nazis were very religious although it was much more of a dark religion. After moving into Austria Hitler grabbed the Spear of Destiny from a museum there (which is the spear that supposedly was used by a roman soldier to stab jesus whilst he was crucified). He was also somewhat obsessed with the holy grail. Essentially Hitler beleived in a lot of Christian history, but rather than follow the Christian ideals he sought to make use of various Christian relics to give him power.

However, I'd say as he did have the spear of destiny and it didn't in fact allow him to control the destiny of the world at will seeing as he got his ass kicked I'd say that's yet more evidence that much of Christian history is completely and utterly false no?
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Post by <ankh> »

Gandelf wrote: (thanks for the correction re the spelling of "Jihad. By the way, it's "Christian" with a capital "C")

Just like Satyn I wont spell christian with a capital c cos I dont like religion. And I only pointed out that it was Jihad to correct you - not make a fool out of you (you seem pretty good at doing that part yourself ]/Ankh[/B]

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Post by Kallima »

Banana wrote:that was taken soo out of context ^^

he said we dont need hope to travel and stuff.
Not that we dont need hope full stop ^^
<giggles> I know

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Post by Satyn »

Kallima wrote:
Take a game example. Suppose someone uses cheats/steals stuff/hacks accounts. Do you automatically say their guild is to blame, even if they were only in the guild for a week, the guild rules ban this behaviour, the guild immediately throws them out, and says they do not want people who behave like that in their guild. If the guild rules say that they expect their members to cheat and steal, then certainly blame the guild.
Right, how many priests have been cought abusing kids? My own father in law was abused by one and he sure as hell wasnt the only one. Do you think they have been fired? or even went to prison? NO ... its one big cover up. They protect them and they will keep doing that. So yes I am blaming them.
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Post by Satyn »

Gandelf wrote:Well, I'm not entirely certain about this, but weren't the Nazis non-religious? Didn't they believe in Neo-Paganism? I think I'm correct in saying that the Nazis were not Christians. Yes, the German people were a Christian nation at the time, but I don't think the Nazis were as a political party.

So if that's true, then that's one good example.
heh ... things are getting better and better here. Saying that the nazi's werent religious .... sigh ....
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Post by Thandruil »

Btw Gand, if u are so free as a christian, how come gay priests aren't allowed by the pope? And don't tell me that's BS, cause a priest got fired in Belgium just because he was gay.

And about the nazi's and them not being christians. This might be a newsflash for u, but he used to be part of the Hitler Jugend. Yes, nearly all Germans were part of it, but this also kinda proves then how they think about it.
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