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Xest
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Post by Xest »

Kallima wrote:That is a pretty sweeping statement. It sounds like you are comparing huge numbers of deaths and suffering from a single incident in a single war to those in the name of all religions throughout history. Even if it does dwarf the numbers its hardly a fair comparison.
Not really, just stating that deaths caused by religious disagreements outnumber those caused by non-religious disagreements. You only have to look at the recently release Iraq estimate of 655,000, the vast majority of those are Sunni vs. Shiite religious disagreement. Even in your World War II example you're ignoring the obvious - that World War II itself had a massive amount of religious involvement.

Whilst I agree some people are violent anyway and I agree that you're right in that religion is one of many excuses to do so however no other reason has the widespread brainwashing and fanaticism that religion does. Millions of children are taught daily that their religion is the right one, that other religions are wrong, many of those are taught this to the extreme that other religions maybe exterminated (This is why there is a seemingly endless supply of muslim suicide bombers in the middle east right now), whilst there are other likenesses to this (i.e. those preaching race hate) they're far more limited in size and scope, certainly nothing on the scale of religion. Of course there is an argument that had religion not existed something else would've taken it's place, and had this been the case I'd too have been putting that down, but the world hasn't turned out like that, religion does exist and religion is the root cause of much death, maiming and hatred in the world. Whilst science is used to kill people, science doesn't teach that people should be killed or converted and that's the fundamental difference - science is a passive subject, religion is aggressive in it's teachings.
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Post by Mojo »

Banana wrote:
But these people are willing to kill for their beliefs.
Surely they would be willing to kill even if they were not religious?
They kill because they beleive 100% that they are doing the right thing, and this is based on their faith, which is based on a delusion.

If you actually beleived whole heartidly that blowing people up was a good thing, God and your peers would love you for it and you went to heaven with 70 virgins and all your friends and family. If you 100% beleived that this was the case why wouldn't you do it.......here in lies the problem.
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Post by Kallima »

Xest wrote:Millions of children are taught daily that their religion is the right one, that other religions are wrong, many of those are taught this to the extreme that other religions maybe exterminated

Firstly not all religions teach that you should exterminate other religions, and indeed most have basic principles that involve not killing. People can of course always read something like 'love thy neighbour as thyself' and still think that applies to others but go out and kill people themselves, in the same way the law says don't drink and drive, or don't drive at excessive speed and people think it doesn't apply to them and go out and kill people.
Xest wrote:no other reason has the widespread brainwashing and fanaticism that religion does.

No other reason? They all do it you know.

Random examples:-

The hitler youth...

Cuba's communist youth Pioneers were created on the model of groups in the former Soviet Union. Children join when they enter school and wear the uniform to school through the 12th grade. Children who refuse to join, for religious or other reasons, are ostracized. So are their parents.

Xest
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Post by Xest »

Even the Hitler youth wasn't anywhere near as widespread as religion... As I say you also get the guy down the pub preaching race hate and recruiting for the NF but it's still extremely small scale compared to religion (and also an extremely small timeframe), religious brainwashing has occured across thousands of years, even Hitler youth, one of the more widespread in terms of people effected lasted what, 6, 7 years?
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Luz
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Post by Luz »

I just once more would like to point out suicidebombers in the muslim world are no different then american soldiers. Only differance is the US has weapons that allow them to blow stuff up without killing themself at the same time, while the poor country they are invading has nothing other then their own bodies and homemade explosives.

Bush has said that America is on Gods side, thus the whole US is currently terrorists blowing inocent people up without the suicidepart.

It makes me sick to my stomache.

Lets just face it, religious people are thoose who grasp straws of meaning in their life when they can find no other, looking for the easy way out. I think I said it before in this thread also. People who cant find other stuff to bond and for communities around use Religion, because it has ALL the answers, its quick and painless.
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Post by Lieva »

Mojo wrote:They kill because they beleive 100% that they are doing the right thing, and this is based on their faith, which is based on a delusion.

If you actually beleived whole heartidly that blowing people up was a good thing, God and your peers would love you for it and you went to heaven with 70 virgins and all your friends and family. If you 100% beleived that this was the case why wouldn't you do it.......here in lies the problem.
hmm maybe
but why would you believe that killing people was right when your religion says you should also uphold the law in your land which states you cant kill.
sure there has to be 'some' element of doubt?
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Post by Gandelf »

<ankh> wrote:Ehh...what?? Read back...I said YOUR GOD..and I also quoted YOUR bible..I said nothing about me accepting a god.
Actually, Im starting to agree with Mojo's earlier statement. Atleast in your case.

Edit: I suggest you actually READ the posts instead of making an **** out of yourself.

/Ankh

But if God doesn't exist and you don't believe in a God at all Ankh, then MY God in MY Bible can't actually be responsible. That's my whole point.

If you're going to pin the blame on God, then you have to accept he (or she) exists, otherwise you're just making hypocritical statements. If God doesn't exist, then how could those things happen that are recorded in the Bible? Were they natural phenomena etc?

So if you don't believe in God, then stop accusing him of doing things.

Furthermore, regardless of the atom bomb, there is no doubt in my opinion that Scientific development as caused more loss of life than anything else in human history... whether it be from the first bow that was made, the invention of Gundpowder, Napalm, or the use of other military hardware. Science kills more than religion! Without Science, these weapons would never have come into existence... that's undeniable!

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Luz
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Post by Luz »

lol Gandelf, thats purely hilarious.

Do you deny Gods responsibility to the events in the Bible?
Did not the flood across the entire planet kill more people then Nuclearbomb in one single instance?

You can say I am religious now because I mention god and the bible, it will just make me laugh more.
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Lieva
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Post by Lieva »

Luz wrote:Lets just face it, religious people are thoose who grasp straws of meaning in their life when they can find no other, looking for the easy way out. I think I said it before in this thread also. People who cant find other stuff to bond and for communities around use Religion, because it has ALL the answers, its quick and painless.
if this is the case why do alot of scientists actually believe in some sort of religion? (which has also been discussed)
surely if science is the answer to life the universe and everthing (and that answer isnt 42)..surely the scientists would actually be against the belief of a concious creator?
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Luz
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Post by Luz »

Banana wrote:if this is the case why do alot of scientists actually believe in some sort of religion? (which has also been discussed)
surely if science is the answer to life the universe and everthing (and that answer isnt 42)..surely the scientists would actually be against the belief of a concious creator?
No science dont answer everything, thats my point. They use science to get answers and what they cant find answers for they use God.

Personally I have no issues with going thru life for no reason whatsoever and doing my best to make people happy.

There is no meaning to life!
This is what so many people cant grasp, it scares em. WHAT NO MEANING!?!?
No you are a pointless animal that lives and dies, end of story, get over it.

EDIT : Yes fully embrasing the fact that there is NO meaning or point of ANYTHING you do will make you sad and desperate, depressed in some cases and maybe other bad stuff. But once you get over it you find as much peace as any cooked up God offers, trust me.
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